Connecting keyboards via Midi ? best arrangement

[stevgil]

Just an update... (Hi Biggles!). I've experimented joining my Casio PX S3000 to my Korg PA1000 and using the Casio as controller as I prefer fully weighted keyboards rather than the semi-weighted. This seemed to work OK and, bar a few little niggles here and there, I used this for some time with using channel 1 using the host to USB connection. I've also got a Roland FA08 which I've currently connected instead of the Casio as I like the Roland's firmer keyboard action a little more than the Casio. I'm OK using either of these combinations but somehow feel I'm missing out by just using the Roland as a mere controller keyboard when I could somehow be using the synth sounds to complement the Korg in some way if possible. It seems that theoretically I should be able to do this by using other midi channels on both joined keyboards but I've yet to venture here. Just to recap, I've got three keyboards and want to know the potentials of making the best use of the sounds from all of them, especially the Roland which I'm only using as a controller. As mentioned, originally I had the Casio as controller leaving the Roland as the spare (not midi'd) keyboard. Connection wise I've got the controller and Korg coming through the Korg speakers and the 'spare' keyboard (Casio) connected to stereo monitors via a two input stereo mixer. I'm currently using the Roland as controller because I prefer the heavier keys, so this would be the preferred main keyboard. My main questions are around perhaps using this setup making more use of the midi channels. I'd like to explore this more (without going down the DAW/computer route) but thought I'd seek out other users' experience before embarking on something I really know very little about. Any help would be gratefully received that might point me in the right direction of making the best of what I've got!
My best wishes to all

 

[MusicwithHarry]

My MIDI rig is quite large, personally. I have about 30 different boards in my studio and live, and use about 8 on stage with the rock band I play in. I have an 88-key controller that I use to layer sounds from the others in my live rig, and often control about 5 more synths live from that controller (in my case, I used a Korg Kross 1-88 but am transitioning to the Kurzweil SP1 for live use instead of the Kross 1-88). For me, the easiest thing to do was get some MIDI Thru boxes from MIDI Solutions. They have three Thru box products in the form of a 2-port, a 4-port, and an 8-port unit. For most keyboards, the MIDI 5-pin jack will provide enough power to power the Thru boxes without hooking up external power (a power adapter that is available from MIDI Solutions, as well). This does not work with the Kurzweil, and so I had to buy the power adapter from them in order for the Kurzweil to be able to send MIDI through those Thru boxes...

If you want to use sounds from your controller (Roland FA?) and layer with the top board (in your case, the Korg PA1000), you can create setups on the Roland FA that have the sounds that you want to use and then load that setup in for each song that you want to play along with on the PA1000.

I own a Korg PA700 and I too, would like to use an 88-key keyboard with it at times, as while I can play any keybed, I do like having a good piano action. This is why I like the Kurzweil, as it is springy and feels good under my fingers. I played around with this yesterday, and the Kurzweil SP1 worked just fine in controlling the PA700 for piano stuff. It also worked with the chord recognition, but I did have to make a couple of changes on the PA700 so the octaves would line up correctly. I also changed the Chord recognition to a '3-finger' setting and changed the scan area to be a bit lower on the PA700.

Since the PA700 (and PA1000) only have 61-keys, I chose to program my Keyboard Sets to be an octave lower. Unfortunately, this translates to the external controller as well and what I have to do is hit the Octave + button on each style/set that I want to trigger from the Kurzweil so that the octaves line up where they are supposed to be. Unless I reprogram each Style and Keyboard Set on the PA700 to be 'normal', I will have to hit the Octave + button every time. It is not a big deal, but something you need to be aware of if you have done a similar thing when playing the PA1000 by itself.

Keep in mind that I am not using the USB connection with my synths, and if memory serves, the Casio only has the USB MIDI connection. I am fairly sure that it will work the same way, but the PA1000 also has a 5-pin MIDI jack, if you wanted to use the FA instead of the Casio. Setting it up should be the same operation with either MIDI connection, I believe.

I am not sure what Roland calls multi-setups, as my Roland D-05 works a bit different than the other synths do in that regard.

If you want to layer sounds while playing the Roland as the controller AND play sounds on the PA1000, the program your setups accordingly on the Roland FA.

If you want the Korg PA1000 to trigger different sounds on the Roland FA, then you will need to MIDI the FA to the PA1000 and the PA1000 will trigger the sounds you set up. In that regard, the FA will be a sound module, being triggered by the PA1000. Make sure that each 'track' on the FA is set up according to how the PA100 is talking for each track. That way, Track 10 can be for a drum kit on the FA, bass on track 2, keys/piano on track 1, etc... you may also want to turn off Program Change on the FA so that when the PA1000 switches to a style that it does not change the programs that you have set up on the FA.

If you want the Roland FA to control the PA1000 AND be a sound module for the PA1000, then you will need to MIDI them to each other. That way, the Roland FA will receive the note info for the layering tracks in a Style/Sequence on the PA1000 AND be able to play sounds from the PA1000 on the FA.

I hope that this is not too confusing. You should not need a PC to do this, as we've been MIDIing up instruments together for over 35 years in the same fashion

With regard to audio connections, you could plug in the outputs of the Roland FA to the inputs of the PA1000. Make sure that you have the Line In option selected, so that you are running in stereo. This would be the same with the Casio. If you want all three, then I would recommend getting a small mixer, like a 6 or 8 channel affair, so that all three output sources can plug into the mixer and from there you can go to an external amplifier/powered speaker. If you are using the internal speakers on the PA1000 exlusively, then you will need the small mixer to plug the Casio and Roland into and then take THAT stereo output and go into the Line In input on the PA1000. In that scenario, do not plug the PA1000 into that mixer, as plugging it into the mixer and then plugging the mixer into the PA1000 will cause an audio loop and potentially cause problems. If you are exclusively using the speakers on the PA1000, consider the PA1000 the mixer/amp. If you are going to an external audio amp/speaker, consider the PA1000 just another sound source that plugs into the mixer.

Grace,
Harry

 

[stevgil]

My MIDI rig is quite large, personally. I have about 30 different boards in my studio and live, and use about 8 on stage with the rock band I play in. I have an 88-key controller that I use to layer sounds from the others in my live rig, and often control about 5 more synths live from that controller (in my case, I used a Korg Kross 1-88 but am transitioning to the Kurzweil SP1 for live use instead of the Kross 1-88). For me, the easiest thing to do was get some MIDI Thru boxes from MIDI Solutions. They have three Thru box products in the form of a 2-port, a 4-port, and an 8-port unit. For most keyboards, the MIDI 5-pin jack will provide enough power to power the Thru boxes without hooking up external power (a power adapter that is available from MIDI Solutions, as well). This does not work with the Kurzweil, and so I had to buy the power adapter from them in order for the Kurzweil to be able to send MIDI through those Thru boxes...

If you want to use sounds from your controller (Roland FA?) and layer with the top board (in your case, the Korg PA1000), you can create setups on the Roland FA that have the sounds that you want to use and then load that setup in for each song that you want to play along with on the PA1000.

I own a Korg PA700 and I too, would like to use an 88-key keyboard with it at times, as while I can play any keybed, I do like having a good piano action. This is why I like the Kurzweil, as it is springy and feels good under my fingers. I played around with this yesterday, and the Kurzweil SP1 worked just fine in controlling the PA700 for piano stuff. It also worked with the chord recognition, but I did have to make a couple of changes on the PA700 so the octaves would line up correctly. I also changed the Chord recognition to a '3-finger' setting and changed the scan area to be a bit lower on the PA700.

Since the PA700 (and PA1000) only have 61-keys, I chose to program my Keyboard Sets to be an octave lower. Unfortunately, this translates to the external controller as well and what I have to do is hit the Octave + button on each style/set that I want to trigger from the Kurzweil so that the octaves line up where they are supposed to be. Unless I reprogram each Style and Keyboard Set on the PA700 to be 'normal', I will have to hit the Octave + button every time. It is not a big deal, but something you need to be aware of if you have done a similar thing when playing the PA1000 by itself.

Keep in mind that I am not using the USB connection with my synths, and if memory serves, the Casio only has the USB MIDI connection. I am fairly sure that it will work the same way, but the PA1000 also has a 5-pin MIDI jack, if you wanted to use the FA instead of the Casio. Setting it up should be the same operation with either MIDI connection, I believe.

I am not sure what Roland calls multi-setups, as my Roland D-05 works a bit different than the other synths do in that regard.

If you want to layer sounds while playing the Roland as the controller AND play sounds on the PA1000, the program your setups accordingly on the Roland FA.

If you want the Korg PA1000 to trigger different sounds on the Roland FA, then you will need to MIDI the FA to the PA1000 and the PA1000 will trigger the sounds you set up. In that regard, the FA will be a sound module, being triggered by the PA1000. Make sure that each 'track' on the FA is set up according to how the PA100 is talking for each track. That way, Track 10 can be for a drum kit on the FA, bass on track 2, keys/piano on track 1, etc... you may also want to turn off Program Change on the FA so that when the PA1000 switches to a style that it does not change the programs that you have set up on the FA.

If you want the Roland FA to control the PA1000 AND be a sound module for the PA1000, then you will need to MIDI them to each other. That way, the Roland FA will receive the note info for the layering tracks in a Style/Sequence on the PA1000 AND be able to play sounds from the PA1000 on the FA.

I hope that this is not too confusing. You should not need a PC to do this, as we've been MIDIing up instruments together for over 35 years in the same fashion

With regard to audio connections, you could plug in the outputs of the Roland FA to the inputs of the PA1000. Make sure that you have the Line In option selected, so that you are running in stereo. This would be the same with the Casio. If you want all three, then I would recommend getting a small mixer, like a 6 or 8 channel affair, so that all three output sources can plug into the mixer and from there you can go to an external amplifier/powered speaker. If you are using the internal speakers on the PA1000 exlusively, then you will need the small mixer to plug the Casio and Roland into and then take THAT stereo output and go into the Line In input on the PA1000. In that scenario, do not plug the PA1000 into that mixer, as plugging it into the mixer and then plugging the mixer into the PA1000 will cause an audio loop and potentially cause problems. If you are exclusively using the speakers on the PA1000, consider the PA1000 the mixer/amp. If you are going to an external audio amp/speaker, consider the PA1000 just another sound source that plugs into the mixer.

Grace,
Harry

Many thanks Grace, Harry for a most comprehensive reply. I'm going to have to read through this more than a few times for it to sink in! Again, very many thanks.

 

[happyrat1]

Here's how my home studio is wired up.

It may give you a few ideas.

Basically I can route and layer any number of devices with a few mouse clicks.


Gary

 

[MusicwithHarry]

Here's how my home studio is wired up.

It may give you a few ideas.

View attachment 2254


View attachment 2255





View attachment 2256
Basically I can route and layer any number of devices with a few mouse clicks.


Gary

Looks like we share similar tastes in some of our gear I love the Deepmind-12 - what a great synth. I also have the Perform VK from tc helicon, but I have not hooked it up yet. I used to have three of the Harmony-M harmony boxes from them in the past and wired up a foot pedla to activate all of them at once while controlling them from MIDI. What a choir sound I had back then

I especially love the Eris 3.5 monitors. They have such a great sound and surprising amount of bass for such small woofers.

The main difference is that I do not use my PC for any routing. I am 'old-fashioned' in that regard and still use the JL Cooper Nexus 3X8 MIDI patchbay for the routing, but then use the MIDI Solutions T8 for routing to the rest of the gear.

I have three different setups, myself, but they can all be chained together for studio use.

I have a live rig with the band I am in and I use:

Kurzweil SP1 (formerly using the Korg Kross 1-88 as the main board)
Korg Kross 1-61
Behringer Deepmind-12
Yamaha Reface Synths YC, DX, CS, CP
Korg Minilogue XD and Minilogue XD Module (these do not always go on gigs though)
Alesis QS6.2 (does not always go on the gigs)
Ensoniq SQ1+ (does not always go on the gigs)

Studio:

Lowrey (Kawai) EZP3 digital piano
Korg Kross 1-61
Korg Kross 1-88
Ensoniq VFX
Ensoniq VFX-SD
Alesis QSR
Korg X5DR
Roland D-05
(2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32

My third rig is for duos and trios and also has the keyboard I use as my principal writing/sequencing tool:

Korg PA700 (principal writing tool)
Korg M50
Alesis SR-16

I have different levels of PA gear too, depending on the gig I am doing. My main concert rig consists of 4 of the Monoprice Streamline 800 watt line array systems and 2 of the Harbinger M350 systems. These all are basically powered sub/satellite systems that have a 10" subwoofer and a top speaker system. I put two of the Monoprice units and one of the Harbinger units on each side so I can run stereo. I also have a pair of Rockville RPG8 powered units for monitors and recently bought the Behringer B105D as additional monitors, if needed. I also have dual IEM systems as well, since I like IEMS.

I think that I am running a potential of about 5,000 watts for the mains when they are all hooked together. Since it is all keyboards running through my PA and processing everything, I can really push these speakers harder than if I had acoustic instruments running through them.

For my studio speakers, I have JBL LSR305, Presonus Eris 3.5, Edifier 1280T, and Rockville DPM5W monitors, all running through the Behringer Xenyx Control2USB controller. I also have a 10" powered sub for the studio but I do not use ti terribly much and it took runs through the Control2USB system. For my laptop setup on another desk in the home, I have a pair of Rockville APM5C and Alesis M1Active 320USB monitors. I do use my PC for mixing, but record everything to the Tascam DP32SD first, then fly the WAV files up to the computer via USB and mix in Reaper.

For the times I want to be louder than my studio monitors, I also have another sub/satellite system in the studio area that is basically another Harbinger M350 system, but it is from Simmons (they are all in bed together anyway). It is the Simmons DA350.

I hope that I did not hijack this thread. If it appears as though I did, I apologize... I just thought that I would share my rigs since you gave such a deatiled layout of yours

Grace,
Harry

 

[MusicwithHarry]

Many thanks Grace, Harry for a most comprehensive reply. I'm going to have to read through this more than a few times for it to sink in! Again, very many thanks.

I am glad to help, sir Grace is my salutation at the end of my posts, and my name is Harry Be well, safe, and blessed

If I can provide any additional help, please let me know.

Grace,
Harry

 

[happyrat1]

Looks like we share similar tastes in some of our gear I love the Deepmind-12 - what a great synth. I also have the Perform VK from tc helicon, but I have not hooked it up yet. I used to have three of the Harmony-M harmony boxes from them in the past and wired up a foot pedla to activate all of them at once while controlling them from MIDI. What a choir sound I had back then

I especially love the Eris 3.5 monitors. They have such a great sound and surprising amount of bass for such small woofers.

The main difference is that I do not use my PC for any routing. I am 'old-fashioned' in that regard and still use the JL Cooper Nexus 3X8 MIDI patchbay for the routing, but then use the MIDI Solutions T8 for routing to the rest of the gear.

I have three different setups, myself, but they can all be chained together for studio use.

I have a live rig with the band I am in and I use:

Kurzweil SP1 (formerly using the Korg Kross 1-88 as the main board)
Korg Kross 1-61
Behringer Deepmind-12
Yamaha Reface Synths YC, DX, CS, CP
Korg Minilogue XD and Minilogue XD Module (these do not always go on gigs though)
Alesis QS6.2 (does not always go on the gigs)
Ensoniq SQ1+ (does not always go on the gigs)

Studio:

Lowrey (Kawai) EZP3 digital piano
Korg Kross 1-61
Korg Kross 1-88
Ensoniq VFX
Ensoniq VFX-SD
Alesis QSR
Korg X5DR
Roland D-05
(2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32

My third rig is for duos and trios and also has the keyboard I use as my principal writing/sequencing tool:

Korg PA700
Korg M50
Alesis SR-16

I have different levels of PA gear too, depending on the gig I am doing. My main concert rig consists of 4 of the Monoprice Streamline 800 watt line array systems and 2 of the Harbinger M350 systems. These all are basically powered sub/satellite systems that have a 10" subwoofer and a top speaker system. I put two of the Monoprice units and one of the Harbinger units on each side so I can run stereo. I also have a pair of Rockville RPG8 powered units for monitors and recently bought the Behringer B105D as additional monitors, if needed. I also have dual IEM systems as well, since I like IEMS.

I think that I am running a potential of about 5,000 watts for the mains when they are all hooked together. Since it is all keyboards running through my PA and processing everything, I can really push these speakers harder than if I had acoustic instruments running through them.

For my studio speakers, I have JBL LSR305, Presonus Eris 3.5, Edifier 1280T, and Rockville DPM5W monitors, all running through the Behringer Xenyx Control2USB controller. I also have a 10" powered sub for the studio but I do not use ti terribly much and it took runs through the Control2USB system. For my laptop setup on another desk in the home, I have a pair of Rockville APM5C and Alesis M1Active 320USB monitors. I do use my PC for mixing, but record everything to the Tascam DP32SD first, then fly the WAV files up to the computer via USB and mix in Reaper.

For the times I want to be louder than my studio monitors, I also have another sub/satellite system in the studio area that is basically another Harbinger M350 system, but it is from Simmons (they are all in bed together anyway). It is the Simmons DA350.

I hope that I did not hijack this thread. If it appears as though I did, I apologize... I just thought that I would share my rigs since you gave such a deatiled layout of yours

Grace,
Harry

You should do up some flowcharts man.

A jpg is worth 1024 words

Gary

 

[MusicwithHarry]

You should do up some flowcharts man.

A jpg is worth 1024 words

Gary

Yeah, I probably should. I have lists on my wall of the mixer inputs for all of the mixers, as well as a MIDI flow chart for the studio. I also have a stage plot for the band that we send with our EPK when contracting shows...

The JL Cooper is nice because it has DIP switches that allows for any three inputs to control any of the 8 outputs.

Sometimes I wonder if I have too much gear...

Grace,
Harry

 

[happyrat1]

First of all there's no such thing as "Too much gear."

Secondly I use a Brother QL570 label printer that makes sticky labels for all my cables and inputs. I always know at a glance which audio channel I'm working with...

Peace

Gary

 

[MusicwithHarry]

First of all there's no such thing as "Too much gear."

Secondly I use a Brother QL570 label printer that makes sticky labels for all my cables and inputs. I always know at a glance which audio channel I'm working with...

Peace

Gary

I remember a time when I had more gear than this but most of the gear was rack mount synth modules and they were easier to put into place...

I usually use red electrical tape for my labeling and write on the strips with a black permanent marker...works good. I label everything, even the wall wart power supplies...

Grace,
Harry

 

[happyrat1]

Of course I label the power supplies. That's a fatal mixup if you let it happen.

As for the labels, until I got the label printer ten years ago I used to use a roll of floppy disk labels I bought decades ago and marked them up with a sharpie.

The label printer is so much more useful and professional though.

I use it for everything from postal correspondence to labeling the canisters in my kitchen pantry.

Every home should have one.

Garty

 

[stevgil]

My MIDI rig is quite large, personally. I have about 30 different boards in my studio and live, and use about 8 on stage with the rock band I play in. I have an 88-key controller that I use to layer sounds from the others in my live rig, and often control about 5 more synths live from that controller (in my case, I used a Korg Kross 1-88 but am transitioning to the Kurzweil SP1 for live use instead of the Kross 1-88). For me, the easiest thing to do was get some MIDI Thru boxes from MIDI Solutions. They have three Thru box products in the form of a 2-port, a 4-port, and an 8-port unit. For most keyboards, the MIDI 5-pin jack will provide enough power to power the Thru boxes without hooking up external power (a power adapter that is available from MIDI Solutions, as well). This does not work with the Kurzweil, and so I had to buy the power adapter from them in order for the Kurzweil to be able to send MIDI through those Thru boxes...

If you want to use sounds from your controller (Roland FA?) and layer with the top board (in your case, the Korg PA1000), you can create setups on the Roland FA that have the sounds that you want to use and then load that setup in for each song that you want to play along with on the PA1000.

I own a Korg PA700 and I too, would like to use an 88-key keyboard with it at times, as while I can play any keybed, I do like having a good piano action. This is why I like the Kurzweil, as it is springy and feels good under my fingers. I played around with this yesterday, and the Kurzweil SP1 worked just fine in controlling the PA700 for piano stuff. It also worked with the chord recognition, but I did have to make a couple of changes on the PA700 so the octaves would line up correctly. I also changed the Chord recognition to a '3-finger' setting and changed the scan area to be a bit lower on the PA700.

Since the PA700 (and PA1000) only have 61-keys, I chose to program my Keyboard Sets to be an octave lower. Unfortunately, this translates to the external controller as well and what I have to do is hit the Octave + button on each style/set that I want to trigger from the Kurzweil so that the octaves line up where they are supposed to be. Unless I reprogram each Style and Keyboard Set on the PA700 to be 'normal', I will have to hit the Octave + button every time. It is not a big deal, but something you need to be aware of if you have done a similar thing when playing the PA1000 by itself.

Keep in mind that I am not using the USB connection with my synths, and if memory serves, the Casio only has the USB MIDI connection. I am fairly sure that it will work the same way, but the PA1000 also has a 5-pin MIDI jack, if you wanted to use the FA instead of the Casio. Setting it up should be the same operation with either MIDI connection, I believe.

I am not sure what Roland calls multi-setups, as my Roland D-05 works a bit different than the other synths do in that regard.

If you want to layer sounds while playing the Roland as the controller AND play sounds on the PA1000, the program your setups accordingly on the Roland FA.

If you want the Korg PA1000 to trigger different sounds on the Roland FA, then you will need to MIDI the FA to the PA1000 and the PA1000 will trigger the sounds you set up. In that regard, the FA will be a sound module, being triggered by the PA1000. Make sure that each 'track' on the FA is set up according to how the PA100 is talking for each track. That way, Track 10 can be for a drum kit on the FA, bass on track 2, keys/piano on track 1, etc... you may also want to turn off Program Change on the FA so that when the PA1000 switches to a style that it does not change the programs that you have set up on the FA.

If you want the Roland FA to control the PA1000 AND be a sound module for the PA1000, then you will need to MIDI them to each other. That way, the Roland FA will receive the note info for the layering tracks in a Style/Sequence on the PA1000 AND be able to play sounds from the PA1000 on the FA.

I hope that this is not too confusing. You should not need a PC to do this, as we've been MIDIing up instruments together for over 35 years in the same fashion

With regard to audio connections, you could plug in the outputs of the Roland FA to the inputs of the PA1000. Make sure that you have the Line In option selected, so that you are running in stereo. This would be the same with the Casio. If you want all three, then I would recommend getting a small mixer, like a 6 or 8 channel affair, so that all three output sources can plug into the mixer and from there you can go to an external amplifier/powered speaker. If you are using the internal speakers on the PA1000 exlusively, then you will need the small mixer to plug the Casio and Roland into and then take THAT stereo output and go into the Line In input on the PA1000. In that scenario, do not plug the PA1000 into that mixer, as plugging it into the mixer and then plugging the mixer into the PA1000 will cause an audio loop and potentially cause problems. If you are exclusively using the speakers on the PA1000, consider the PA1000 the mixer/amp. If you are going to an external audio amp/speaker, consider the PA1000 just another sound source that plugs into the mixer.

Grace,
Harry

Hi Harry, Just to say I'm reading through your recommendations and will probably go for the Roland to control the PA1000. Currently I've got them connected via USB i.e. controller to slave. I get confused over whether to connect 5 pin to 5 pin or USB to host, and also whether I'll need to connect in to out and out to in using two cables as the USB option includes all channels each way (as far as I understand it). When you say: "if you want the Roland to control the PA1000 AND be a sound module for the PA, then you will need to midi them to each other." Does this imply using two DIN MIDI cables connecting both keyboards or USB to host using the one cable? Also, when I connect the Korg to the Roland, the Roland has a dedicated DAW button which I select and then choose the Controller option, though I'm not sure where to go after this as I get 8 green sampler buttons which are presumably for me to use for control. I assume that this is to facilitate using these in some midi set up but I'd guess that this is for connecting to a DAW. Currently, everything works OK for the Roland keyboard controlling the Korg as I can still press the buttons on the Korg and just use the Roland's keyboard action only and nothing else, though I occasionally use the Korg's after-touch action on certain instruments thus I've got the best use of both keyboards but using only the Korg sounds. I'm also going to use the Korg's speakers to connect everything to as they are very good. I'm not sure what to do about the Casio as it's just an extra keyboard that I like the action of, though in the future if I can't sort out the Korg to Roland midi setup, I may sacrifice the Casio as being just a controller for the Korg and play the Roland separately as I did originally, or perhaps even sell the Casio. In summary, I understand the MIDI principles and possibilities but haven't yet fathomed out how to use the various keyboard interfaces to do this, but will battle on nevertheless until the penny drops!

Many thanks
Steve

 

[MusicwithHarry]

Hi Harry, Just to say I'm reading through your recommendations and will probably go for the Roland to control the PA1000. Currently I've got them connected via USB i.e. controller to slave. I get confused over whether to connect 5 pin to 5 pin or USB to host, and also whether I'll need to connect in to out and out to in using two cables as the USB option includes all channels each way (as far as I understand it). When you say: "if you want the Roland to control the PA1000 AND be a sound module for the PA, then you will need to midi them to each other." Does this imply using two DIN MIDI cables connecting both keyboards or USB to host using the one cable? Also, when I connect the Korg to the Roland, the Roland has a dedicated DAW button which I select and then choose the Controller option, though I'm not sure where to go after this as I get 8 green sampler buttons which are presumably for me to use for control. I assume that this is to facilitate using these in some midi set up but I'd guess that this is for connecting to a DAW. Currently, everything works OK for the Roland keyboard controlling the Korg as I can still press the buttons on the Korg and just use the Roland's keyboard action only and nothing else, though I occasionally use the Korg's after-touch action on certain instruments thus I've got the best use of both keyboards but using only the Korg sounds. I'm also going to use the Korg's speakers to connect everything to as they are very good. I'm not sure what to do about the Casio as it's just an extra keyboard that I like the action of, though in the future if I can't sort out the Korg to Roland midi setup, I may sacrifice the Casio as being just a controller for the Korg and play the Roland separately as I did originally, or perhaps even sell the Casio. In summary, I understand the MIDI principles and possibilities but haven't yet fathomed out how to use the various keyboard interfaces to do this, but will battle on nevertheless until the penny drops!

Many thanks
Steve

It can get a bit confusing when you want multiple units to talk not only to each other, but also play on their own...

WIth regard to the DAW functionality on the Roland, I suspect that is for choosing a template for the different DAWs that are out there and it will not probably work with the PA1000 since it is not a DAW.

Since I am more 'old school' than anything, I normally use the 5-pin MIDI cables for connecting everything.

If you want to control the PA1000 from the Roland, then MIDI Out from the Roland and MIDI In to the PA1000. If you want the PA1000 to play sounds from the Roland while a style/sequence is playing, then you would also need to MIDI Out from the PA1000 and MIDI In to the Roland. This will effectively allow each one to control the other...

Another thing to consider: The PA1000 has different MIDI templates in the Global/MIDI settings for how you want to use the PA1000. If you choose the Sequencer template (in a drop down menu), it will configure the PA1000 in a 16-track format and send each track in the sequencer accordingly. If you choose Default, it will set up the PA1000 to send the tracks out from a style accordingly to the external sound source. You may have to switch between these two modes if you are using both the Sequencer and Syle/Song player for your music.

I am facing a similar quandry with a duo that I play in. The PA700 is the controller for everything, but not every Sequence that I made has the piano on track 1. This means that I would need to change the MIDI channel from my 88-key controller to the channel/track that has the piano/ep sound on it. I may choose to simply bring another synth that has piano/ep sounds already in it so I can play them live or provide layers for what the PA700 is already doing.

I am also using an external harmony box (tc helicon Perform VK) and so I will need to manually control that too and the only way I can safely do this (due to my using the Sequencer AND Style player for different songs) is to control it from an external unit.

This is where your Casio could come in. It sounds like what you need is a sound module instead of two 88-key units. That way, the PA1000 can send MIDI information to the sound module, AND you will be able to employ the Casio as well. I will agree that the action on the Casio is quite good.

I am not saying to get rid of the Roland, by any means. It would be easier to use the Roland as a module that the PA1000 controls and you simply play the Casio for the rest of the parts you want to play.

There is more programming involved when using two boards, but it certainly can be done...

Grace,
Harry

 

[happyrat1]

You don't need a DAW program to handle simple routing on a computer.

A simple, standalone routing program is available for most platforms as free downloads.

Personally I use an open source program called Catia on Linux but the principle is the same for every operating system.

I can hook up any instrument on my computer to any other instrument or output with this system.

Or layer 5 of them if I want to. It's brilliantly simple once it's up and running.

This is just the hookup for my living room.

You should see the one I have in my studio.

AND I NEVER HAVE TO DISTURB A SINGLE WIRE...

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

I seem to recall that they also sell hardware MIDI routers once and maybe still do.

But would you really want to spend an extra $400 or $500 on a piece of hardware that your computer or even iPad can do?

Welcome to the future. Yes MIDI is still alive and well, but it's ugly twin brother is USB

When's the last time anyone bought a sound card with a MIDI port on it?

Gary

 

[stevgil]

You don't need a DAW program to handle simple routing on a computer.

A simple, standalone routing program is available for most platforms as free downloads.

Personally I use an open source program called Catia on Linux but the principle is the same for every operating system.

I can hook up any instrument on my computer to any other instrument or output with this system.

Or layer 5 of them if I want to. It's brilliantly simple once it's up and running.

View attachment 2261


This is just the hookup for my living room.

You should see the one I have in my studio.

AND I NEVER HAVE TO DISTURB A SINGLE WIRE...

Gary

Thanks for the diagram Gary. It will prove useful to me at some point!

 

[MusicwithHarry]

I seem to recall that they also sell hardware MIDI routers once and maybe still do.

But would you really want to spend an extra $400 or $500 on a piece of hardware that your computer or even iPad can do?

Welcome to the future. Yes MIDI is still alive and well, but it's ugly twin brother is USB

When's the last time anyone bought a sound card with a MIDI port on it?

Gary

Technology is a wonderful thing, but many of us still like to operate outside the computer realm and there is more than enough tech out there to facilitate that

As far as MIDI Routers go, MIDI Solutions offers MIDI Thru boxes in different sizes and they work great. There are also companies like Kenton that offer USB Host devices so that the USB-only keyboards can still be integrated into 'legacy' MIDI systems. There is also another company out there (their name escapes me at the moment) who offers a MIDI patchbay device that also offers USB Host functionality and any combination in between. It is around $400 USD, I believe, so yeah, it is a bit pricey.

I will likely stay in the hardware realm, and use my PC for mixing and, well, PC things. It works for me and I really feel like I have more control. I think I understand the premise behind USB, as it seems to be more reliable, faster, and more stable. With that said, we are still largely operating on MIDI 1.X and have been since the early 80's. I know that MIDI 2.X allows for more functionality, but there is something to be said about MIDI 1.X still being the de-facto standard after nearly 40 years I have run not only a large number of synths via MIDI, but also have run lights, and so many other things, all at the same time. it has never crapped out on me when I program it right.

Today's workstations and other music hardware devices offer an unparalleled degree of functionality so that you do not need to have a computer in the mix (pun intended and I hope, well placed). I am not discounting computer usage at all, because there are so many users out there that are soft-synth gurus and the ability to have 100 Gb of samples or modeling capabilities that the hardware synths just cannot touch.

With that said, I do feel a degree of disconnect when using the PC for what I would normally do with hardware. That is why I ended up buying a control surface for when I am mixing in my DAW. At least there are faders instead of mouse clicks when doing routine mixing things. With the advent of SSD, the chances of mechanical HD failure is virtually gone, but there is still a degree of uncertainty, at least for me, with integrating a PC into my live keyboard rig. With that said, I would LOVE to be able to have something like Mainstage to send all of the programs (and program changes) I need for each song I want to do.

I still think that it is easier to simply hook up a couple of hardware synths, via a 5-pin MIDI cable, and get playing music. By putting a computer into it all increases the complexity, even if the outcome is a more capable configuration model. I just like my hardware and its ability to simply WORK when it is supposed to (most of the time). Since I am a tinkerer of sorts, I still like the satisfaction of physically hooking up cables instead of clicking on configs on a computer screen.

In the end, it is up to each of us to find the best that works for us, and for me, I still find hardware extrememly useful and non-limiting.

Grace,
Harry