Did Led Zepplin Rip Off Stairway?
- Thread starter happyrat1
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Noop.
Similar yes, but the progression is not new its been around for decades before either song was written.
Inspired by, possibly.
There is more similarity in the Bass line, but again its a common key progression.
Similar yes, but the progression is not new its been around for decades before either song was written.
Inspired by, possibly.
There is more similarity in the Bass line, but again its a common key progression.
Rayblewit
Love Music / Love Life
Sounds similar . .
Could be a rip off . .
What about this?
Not a well known tune for non tullies so here it is . .
Could be a rip off . .
What about this?
Not a well known tune for non tullies so here it is . .
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
Same chord progression but the rhythm's totally different.
The Spirit/Zeppelin thing though sounds almost identical.
Gary
Rayblewit
Love Music / Love Life
It's amazing that only 7 Major keys A - G can produce millions and millions of diffetent sounding tunes. Just 7 notes!
It is enivitable that there be some overlaps along the way. Some are accidental sound alikes.
Some maybe blatant copycats. Money spinners for lawyers.
Ed Sherrin had been found guilty of plagiarism just recently. Been fined millions but he is not bothered by it.
Life goes on.
Ray
It is enivitable that there be some overlaps along the way. Some are accidental sound alikes.
Some maybe blatant copycats. Money spinners for lawyers.
Ed Sherrin had been found guilty of plagiarism just recently. Been fined millions but he is not bothered by it.
Life goes on.
Ray
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
I still remember back in the 80's when samplers first came around. You couldn't turn on the news without hearing about one band suing another.
Fortunately they redefined the principles of fair use and determined at what point an artist gets paid these days.
Gary
Fortunately they redefined the principles of fair use and determined at what point an artist gets paid these days.
Gary
This discussion is as old as the hills. Who did W C Handy borrow from (i.e. rip off)? How many blues guys 'woke up this morning'? Back in the day when I played with a gigging gaggle, we referred to the various musical parts generically e.g. 'Memphis in A', 'Bo Diddly in E', 'Blue Moon in F', 'Summertime in A-minor'; only had to check to see if the singer knew the lyrics (two verse minimum). Some of the fancier progressions such as Stairway, Hotel, Whiter Shade, etc are simply well know interval progressions which, if you're looking frequently show up in short bursts in works by Bach. Even the aforesaid Tull admitted to cadging a tune or two from old masters. Of course even the old masters cadged a tune or two from the folk song book. Gord Lightfoot's 'Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' has both inspired suggestions of copying from the traditional folk as well as newer compositions using the same framework - go figure. There's a Nilsson song I like playing merely because it walks through a bunch of neat progressions borrowed from hit songs avoiding only the most common and frequently occurring one. The boundary between original and copy is very indistinct: consider this offering
a sort of forward/backward appropriation (you know you've heard some of these licks from highly regarded rock guitars and their owners).
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
Still the lawsuits continue. There's a couple more recent ones listed in the Music Theory Thread.
www.keyboardforums.com
www.keyboardforums.com
www.keyboardforums.com
It's really starting to become ridiculous. People seem to think they can copyright a single chord.
Gary
Music Theory
Music Theory
Music Theory
It's really starting to become ridiculous. People seem to think they can copyright a single chord.
Gary
Auto-tune: who needs it? 1) can't hold a tune? 2) can hold a tune but you're stuck with a monotonous melody, 3) you're a recording engineer with not enough to occupy your time, 4) still hearing those yodeling records your mom liked in your head?
Oh yaah! what about your X7aug+9?Still the lawsuits continue. There's a couple more recent ones listed in the Music Theory Thread.
Music Theory
Music Theory
Music Theory
It's really starting to become ridiculous. People seem to think they can copyright a single chord.
Gary
I had a bit of trouble working out the links however the dude makes some good points; he's wrong about lyrics though: first don't 'y'all' me if you're not from the south but other than that whine about the one that dumped y'all all you want, in an incredibly novel way. No matter, guitar players aren't going to stop copying other guitar players riffs nor are lyricists going to find predictable means (and occasionally meaningful ways) of filling up the space between guitar solos. Aaah, sweet dreams are made of these (English as she is spoke).
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To go back to the original post, the thing about Led Zep possibly ripping off Spirit is that Led Zep was the opening act on a Spirit tour where Spirit played Taurus, BEFORE Stairway was written-- so it's definitely possible that Led Zep heard Taurus many times, "adapted" the guitar riff (since it's obviously not identical), and expanded on it while writing Stairway.
I'm a big Spirit fan, myself-- although I never heard their earliest albums until later (the one that introduced me to them was 12 Dreams)-- and the first time I heard Taurus I immediately thought of Stairway, so when I found out that Taurus came first, I was convinced that Led Zep stole from Spirit. (As I've heard since then, it wouldn't be the first time that Led Zep were accused of plagiarizing from someone else.)
But I've mostly changed my mind-- not 100%, but more than 50%-- because the two riffs aren't identical, and I don't think it should be a crime to be inspired by something.
I'm a big Spirit fan, myself-- although I never heard their earliest albums until later (the one that introduced me to them was 12 Dreams)-- and the first time I heard Taurus I immediately thought of Stairway, so when I found out that Taurus came first, I was convinced that Led Zep stole from Spirit. (As I've heard since then, it wouldn't be the first time that Led Zep were accused of plagiarizing from someone else.)
But I've mostly changed my mind-- not 100%, but more than 50%-- because the two riffs aren't identical, and I don't think it should be a crime to be inspired by something.
About 50% of all concertos end on the same crashing harmonic resolution often including the 8ve drop at the end. I had a SNAFU during a music exam when I accidentally inserted the wrong second section in a long classical piece having extensively practiced two different pieces (different composers) where the first 8 bars in the second sections were nearly identical (luckily, the adjudicator bought it); obviously there are fine lines between inspiration, imitation and plagiarism. John Lennon attributed the inspiration of 'Because' to listening to Yoko playing 'Moonlight Sonata' - not plagiarism but ... I frequently play Dylan's 'Don't Think Twice' which is mainly a revision of previous folk songs including, unusually for Dylan, comps of existing lyrics. I would point to Frank Zappa's 'Road Ladies' as an indictment of many cliche's that litter the repertoire of too many blues bands; I mention Zappa because my son, 40 years my junior, listens to a lot of prog rock where one can frequently hear guitar riffs a la Zappa; however, when playing with Johnny Otis Show, Zappa himself demonstrated a (suspiciously good?) mastery of cliche(classic?) blues guitar. Even though Brian Wilson's 'Good Vibrations' is a compendium of rock cliches it is nevertheless brilliant. In any case, musical sensibility tends to direct composition away from dissonance and towards a small toolkit of harmonic progressions; in some other discussion, we talked about 'surprise Bb' which isn't really that as it has been used many times (even by Lennon and McCartney ... did they 'borrow' it from Phil Spector?).
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
Still... Vocoders kick ass and Autotune has its uses as far as avante garde and experimental stuff goes
Gary
Edit >>> Leonard Cohen REALLY needed Autotune
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Speaking of auto-tune, a few years ago there was a "scandal" when someone got hold of, and posted, a copy of (IIRC) Britney Spears singing one of her hit songs woefully out of tune, the implication being that Britney can't sing in tune and sounds like crap without auto-tune. But it's my suspicion that she was deliberately singing out of tune so that when auto-tune was applied to her voice it would have that distinctly "auto-tuned" sound. You sometimes hear this done in movies or TV to create "android" voices, where an actor says the lines in monotone (presumably), but some sort of auto-tune is applied to create a strangely "melodic" voice that sounds artificial.
Singing out of tune live is rampant. And has been worst in the last 30 years.
A few years ago a so call star of the eighties was one of two warm up acts for a specific major artists concert, it was painful to listen to her try to sing, woefully out of key and her timing sucked big time.
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
Back in the late 70's and early 80's we called it "Punk Rock" and it was great fun!!!
Dead Kennedys. Gang of Four. Sex Pistols. The Slits.
Some great times were had by all in the mosh pits
Gary
Dead Kennedys. Gang of Four. Sex Pistols. The Slits.
Some great times were had by all in the mosh pits
Gary
Back in the late 70's and early 80's we called it "Punk Rock" and it was great fun!!!
Dead Kennedys. Gang of Four. Sex Pistols. The Slits.
Some great times were had by all in the mosh pits
Gary
punk, Punk, PUNK.
OMG Gary you seriously need to seek help.
The only good that came out of Punk was the vast increase in Malcolm Maclaren’s Bank Balance.
It was a movement con from start to finish and was solely aimed to extract cash from the brain dead followers ( this relates to the UK and not necessarily other countries apart from Oz where it certainly applied to my Niece ) who eagerly paid their benefit hand out cash not only for the CD’s, concerts but also for the fashion that went with the genre.
Yep, Punk has a lot to answer for.
Rayblewit
Love Music / Love Life
Punk is not so bad.
The Ramones did it justice as well as NOFX and Nirvana and many more.
Rap is the worst genre by far.
I rate punk music high above rap.
Punk has melodic merits.
Rap has no melody just crap poetry.
Ray
The Ramones did it justice as well as NOFX and Nirvana and many more.
Rap is the worst genre by far.
I rate punk music high above rap.
Punk has melodic merits.
Rap has no melody just crap poetry.
Ray
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
What he said
Punk was great fun and raw energy.
If anyone thinks it was all a con, just try and keep up with Gang of Four or Dead Kennedys or Screaming Blue Messiahs on a keyboard. Your fingers will bleed quickly my friends.
If it weren't for punk we'd never have seen the likes of Sting or the Police.
And Ray was right about Rap as well. it's really cRap, minus the "C."
I could not agree with Ray more.
Gary