Digital pianos c£500 / $750 USD / €600 / $860 CND / $960 AUD.

[Kaneda]

What it has shown is that I miss the Arranger functions, but I do not miss the soulless wishy washy synth action that was on my Korg 700.

So I want 73/76/88 keys, hammer action or something like, Style play with at least four variations, multiple splits, sliders that double up as drawbars, plus the usual Arranger bits and pieces. Not much to ask for is it?

Just a suggestion : two-tier with the Casio PX-S3000 on the bottom, the Studiologic Numa Compact 2x on top.
- No wishy washy synth action : check (on both)
The PX-S3000 has a good weighted and graded action, and is as good, if not better, than the likes of Yamaha's GHS, Korg's NH or the Medeli K6 for example, not Kawai level, but I don't think you're looking to become the next Chopin ; the Numa Compact has a good semi-weighted keybed so no cheap-feeling synth action there

- Good, solid piano sounds : check (on both), and the Studiologic also has got you covered with very good EP, synth and organ sounds, IMHO...

- Style play with four variations etc. : check, I believe, on the PX-S3000, while not as capable an arranger as your previous PA700 but I think it might still be very respectable

- Sliders that double up as drawbars : check, on the Numa Compact 2x, you've got very good organ sounds and physical drawbars

- Connectivity : check, I guess, the Studiologic has got you covered, the PX-S3000 lacks legacy MIDI, but you might find ways around that, there are plenty of adapters on the market

- Portability : check (on both), you might not be looking for portability, but both are extremely portable, should the need arise

- Both have built-in speakers, more than capable for home use, and if not, they both have the 1/4 inch line outs

- This combo won't break the bank, costing the same as a single FA08. Get yourself an M-Audio SP2 sustain pedal for the PX-S3000, and an M-Audio EX-P expression pedal for the Numa, both solid pedals and not expensive at all. I think it should be possible to connect everything together so that you can use both the sustain and expression pedal for the sounds in both boards, but don't ask me how to do that...

Neither keyboard can be put in the 'professional' category and they don't pretend to be, but you may find it an interesting combination for your use case. No keyboard or combination of keyboards is perfect (so I've discovered ) so my suggestion can go either way : big thumbs up or crash&burn. Take a leap of faith, if you don't like them, you can always send them back and lose no money in the process, but having gained an experience

 

[Biggles]

Kaneda.
I appreciate the time you have taken and the comments.

I spent about 10 minutes on a PX S1000 and 5 minutes on a PX S3000, I did not find the keybed action as good as a Roland or Yamaha, but worst of all was the OS.

I had to download the manual and look through it in store before I could get the S1000 working and changing voices, I just could not live with the touch controls.

Roland FA any FA that is would now get zero interest, I will not be buying an old design Roland.

Portability is not a requirement.

A Korg PA4X 76 key is at the top of my long term wish list.

Still keeping fingers crossed an updated model will be released soon.

Meanwhile I am considering selling on the Yamaha P121.

 

[anotherscott]

I spent about 10 minutes on a PX S1000 and 5 minutes on a PX S3000, I did not find the keybed action as good as a Roland or Yamaha, but worst of all was the OS.

I had to download the manual and look through it in store before I could get the S1000 working and changing voices, I just could not live with the touch controls.

If you come across one, it might be worth trying one of the previous gen Casios i.e. PX-560, CGP-700, PX-360 (though I think that last one is already discontinued)... the action is different, and the touchscreen interface is nice, you won't need the manual for the basics.

 

[Kaneda]

If you come across one, it might be worth trying one of the previous gen Casios i.e. PX-560, CGP-700, PX-360 (though I think that last one is already discontinued)... the action is different, and the touchscreen interface is nice, you won't need the manual for the basics.

Biggles already pointed out that he found that the action on the Kawai ES110 was particularly noisy. In my own experience, the action that' is in the PX-560 and the likes will sound even worse to him...
That's not to say it's a bad action, far from it, and the noise doesn't matter one bit when you're on stage, but in a home environment, it's just as annoying as a vacuum cleaner...

 

[Biggles]

Had this Covid pandemic not screwed up life I am pretty sure I would have sold my P121 and bought something else by now.

A DP is fine if you want to only play piano, if you want more then it becomes a pretty limiting keyboard with its very restricted onboard sound palette.

As I wrote sone time ago I have had enough of my DP, it is a competent keyboard with great piano sounds and a pretty good action for this ham fisted old guy.

I know that if things had been normal by now I would have had multiple trips to the music stores to checkout in detail the Casio S3000, Yamaha DGX 660 and Korg XE50 which are all DP’s with arranger functions.

I know I really want a Korg PA4X 76 but so far I am unwilling to spend £2500 on a keyboard which is of old design and which has not had a major OS update for 18 months. I know it has all the features I want but there is that nagging doubt, plus there is a lot of Yorkshire blood in me and hence have deep pockets.

 

[Kaneda]

If a PA4X 76 really is what you want, then everything else will feel as a compromise and you will regret it rather sooner than later.
What more could a PA5X offer you ? Better styles ? Better sounds ? Better anything ?
You say you don't want to spend £2500 on it. Would you be willing to spend £3000 or more when Korg decides to launch a PA5X ?

I think the PA4X is already top of the line and that a successor would just be more of the same. Different, but the same. Look how long the Kronos has been out and there's still nothing on the market that beats it.
I've never played the PA4X but I'm assuming it's got a superb semi-weighted action, and everything else that you could possibly want.

If you can afford it, get it. There's always something new around the corner. And if you'd still like a weighted action, you can pair the PA4X with an inexpensive D1 : Korg's RH3 action really is very good and a semi-weighted keybed reallly isn't suited for piano;

 

[anotherscott]

If you can afford it, get it. There's always something new around the corner.

I tend to agree with this. The one thing you can never get back is time. If the potential hit on the value of your purchase once there's a new model is what stands in your way, look for a used one. If you end up wanting to sell it to get the next model (whenever it coimes out), you'd be able to minimize your loss on resale buy having bought it used to begin with. Meanwhile, you'll be enjoying it, and that has value too.

(p.s. -- I wrote above that I thought the Casio PX-360 may have been discontinued, but it's not. Too late to edit.)

 

[Biggles]

If a PA4X 76 really is what you want, then everything else will feel as a compromise and you will regret it rather sooner than later.
What more could a PA5X offer you ? Better styles ? Better sounds ? Better anything ?
You say you don't want to spend £2500 on it. Would you be willing to spend £3000 or more when Korg decides to launch a PA5X ?

I think the PA4X is already top of the line and that a successor would just be more of the same. Different, but the same. Look how long the Kronos has been out and there's still nothing on the market that beats it.
I've never played the PA4X but I'm assuming it's got a superb semi-weighted action, and everything else that you could possibly want.

If you can afford it, get it. There's always something new around the corner. And if you'd still like a weighted action, you can pair the PA4X with an inexpensive D1 : Korg's RH3 action really is very good and a semi-weighted keybed reallly isn't suited for piano;

Have you tried a D1?

Its like playing a keybed made of butter.

Korg hammer keybeds (certainly less than £1000) are way below Roland, Yamaha and Casio imo for feel and touch.

Korg do have a worst action than there is on the D1 and their RH3 and that is on their keyboards with their Natural Hammer Action which the B2N has. This is a real shame as their XE20 also has this action which I am not sure I could live with.

So it pains me to say but the Yamaha DGX 660 is probably the best DP with Arranger functions on the market.

 

[Biggles]

I tend to agree with this. The one thing you can never get back is time. If the potential hit on the value of your purchase once there's a new model is what stands in your way, look for a used one. If you end up wanting to sell it to get the next model (whenever it coimes out), you'd be able to minimize your loss on resale buy having bought it used to begin with. Meanwhile, you'll be enjoying it, and that has value too.

(p.s. -- I wrote above that I thought the Casio PX-360 may have been discontinued, but it's not. Too late to edit.)

You guys are right.

I will wait until NAMM 21 to see what new kit comes out.

 

[Kaneda]

Have you tried a D1?

Its like playing a keybed made of butter.

Korg hammer keybeds (certainly less than £1000) are way below Roland, Yamaha and Casio imo for feel and touch.

Korg do have a worst action than there is on the D1 and their RH3 and that is on their keyboards with their Natural Hammer Action which the B2N has. This is a real shame as their XE20 also has this action which I am not sure I could live with.

So it pains me to say but the Yamaha DGX 660 is probably the best DP with Arranger functions on the market.

I happen to like Korg's RH3 a lot. I've tried the Grandstage and also the D1 and it's just so much better than the NH keybed in the B2N, or in the Kross 2 88 for that matter (which I have owned). After the Kawai RHIII, it's the best plastic action out there. But that's my opinion...

 

[3dc]

Its just funny to see @Biggles praise Yamaha.

I was once lectured by far better musician then me that you should always buy an instrument that will more likely survive you then you selling it or in simple words it should have everything you would ever need or wanted. Any future upgrade would not be that much of improvement of what you already have.

I think PA4X fits that logic perfectly. As @Kaneda said:
"If a PA4X 76 really is what you want, then everything else will feel as a compromise and you will regret it rather sooner than later."

My 5 cents...

 

[anotherscott]

No keyboard ever has everything I would ever want or need. ;-)

But a related point is that new upgraded models sometimes lose old features, too. The Korg M50 replaced the TR, and in some ways, it was better... it had more effects, a touchscreen, and some other improvements... but they also took away some features, too. The M50 no longer had the aftertouch, assignable outs, or available user sample RAM that the TR did.

 

[Biggles]

No keyboard ever has everything I would ever want or need. ;-)

But a related point is that new upgraded models sometimes lose old features, too. The Korg M50 replaced the TR, and in some ways, it was better... it had more effects, a touchscreen, and some other improvements... but they also took away some features, too. The M50 no longer had the aftertouch, assignable outs, or available user sample RAM that the TR did.

True

Your “lose old features” strikes a chord, there is a guy on the Korg Forums who rants and rants about what others consider as minor features that have been dropped by Korg since the 4X was introduced and the 700/1000 never had said features. Don't ask me what they were as I cannot follow his explanations.

 

[3dc]

No keyboard ever has everything I would ever want or need. ;-)

Had the same thought but then I realized the point he was making. You either crave for more and more of new stuff which will never satisfy you or you enjoy what you already have. Buy once, buy high quality product and enjoy the product until one of you break. At least that was what I understood from his comment. Like old man and his even older guitar I guess.