Heads up please for kurzweil Artis 7 & Roland VR 730

[Melodymaker]

Has any one experience of these two boards in comparison. I do fancy a change to the Artis 7 but am concerned with reports of faults occurring even on new boards. How would this shape on stage against the VR 730
Thanks for looking.

 

[anotherscott]

My take on it:

Roland advantages:
... better organ... sounds better, and supports upper+lower manual
... easier synth editing (via free iPad app)
... lighter

Kurzweil advantages:
... 4-way split/layer instead of 2, with each of the 4 Parts capable of having their own effects and panning... which Roland's two parts do not have
... 256 savable user programs plus 256 savable user multis (combinations), all selectable via direct buttons and via MIDI... Roland has no savable user programs and 100 savable user registrations (combinations), only the first 16 of which are selectable via direct buttons (i.e. no scrolling) and none of which are selectable via MIDI
... supports 4 external MIDI zones... Roland supports just 1
... deeper editing is available (via free computer editor, though by reputation, it's not great)
... subjective, but I think most of the non-organ sounds are better on the Kurzweil
... metal chassis with internal power supply vs. Roland's plastic chassis with external power supply... this does make the Kurz heavier, but not tremendously so (27.7 lbs vs. 22 lbs)

Also worth mentioning is that there is a cool freeware PC/Mac editor for the Roland that gives it additional sounds and capabilities, though your ability to save your creations in the board (so you can play them when not attached to the computer) is still limited by the 100 available locations into which you can store your registrations (though you can also use a USB stick to swap in different sets of 100).

It is also possible to load other sounds into the Kurzweil. It is compatible with programs from the PC3 series, and the PC3 sounds are available for download.

 

[Melodymaker]

Many thanks to you anotherscott for your reply and views. I was under the impression that the Kurz KB3 was a good enough organ clone for a rompler anyway.
I suppose that it can be subjective to the individual ear and therefore a matter of preference. I have had a
VR 09 in the past so am familiar with its plus and minus points. Having said that the VR730 would present a better bottom board given the extras, keybed and extra keys. I probably would lean toward the Kurz from what I have heard of the sounds and also the flexibility with those sliders and mute buttons. My previous VR 09 was only used as a top board so the new bottom replacement would have to be very capable insomuch that I may even revert to one board if it's good enough.
The splits on the Kurz are also a winner for me. I also liked the VOX (korg) Continental 73 but the inadequate splits let an otherwise we'll built board down. They are going cheap over here in the UK. The Kurz and the Roland are also reasonable at Around £999 which I believe is around $1300.60 us dollars.
Incidentally, I love the new
Yamaha YC 73 BUT HATE THAT AWFUL FAST LESLIE SIM. Another let down where a little more thought wouldn't have gone amiss considering it was supposed to be designed as a one stop gigging machine.The object defeated if one has to start adding vent Sims etc at extra cost. I suppose another upgrade update would cure that but again, if and when. Plus they are selling well so Yamaha probably aren't that bothered at present. It seems to me that the best bottom boards are the Quality Stage Pianos like the CP's etc. I could take the plunge but I have always been an organist over the years and obviously been shunted to keyboards by the market but have had some good gear in the past although nowadays there is a plastic rompler war between competing companies vying for the world market as it is. I waffle on and could do for ever so I'll continue to evaluate the market for that ever elusive non existent perfect Rompler Lol. Thanks again and Happy Melodies.

 

[anotherscott]

I was under the impression that the Kurz KB3 was a good enough organ clone for a rompler anyway.

It's better than a rompler organ. It's just not as good as what's in the Roland VR09/VR730. Comparing it to boards that only do sample playback (modern versions of what used to be called rompelrs) is different from comparing it to boards that actual have separate organ engines that reproduce sound using different technology than just playing samples.

I should also point out that its organ can be improved externally more easily than the Roland's.
... If you want to get a better Leslie effect, the Kurzweil lets you pan the organ to one side and all your other sounds to the other, so you can put an external pedal (like a Lester K or a Neo Ventilator) on the organ sound and it will work well. On the Roland, you can't pan the organ to one side, so if you want a better rotary effect, unlike on the Kurzweil, it will be impossible to put the better Leslie effect on the organ without also putting it on any sound you may be splitting your organ with. Also, because you can't separate the outputs on the Roland, you'd have to switch the pedal in and out every time you changed sounds (otherwise you'll end up with Leslie on your strongs, brass, whatever), whereas on the Kurzweil you can just leave it engaged and forget about it, and it will work fine.
... If you want to control an external organ source for a better organ (like a Gemini module, an iPad organ like B-3X or VB-3m, or a VST), the Kurzweil does it easily because its sliders can send standard MIDI CC. The Roland's drawbars send sysex, so you would need an external app or device to convert the systex to CC in order to do this.

Incidentally, I love the new
Yamaha YC 73 BUT HATE THAT AWFUL FAST LESLIE SIM.

and the Yamaha has the same issue as the Roland, where even if you want to put a Leslie pedal on it to improve it, you can't send it your organ sound without sending it any other sound you may be playing with it, and without having to switch the pedal in or out every time you change between organ and non-organ sounds.

FWIW, I bought-and-returned Roland VR-09 and Yamaha YC61. I kept the Kurzweil Artis 7.

 

[Melodymaker]

Thanks for that last opinion. It seems I was right in leaning toward the kurzweil by what you have just said.i also think it would be the more capable choice for a stand alone board given the splits abilities. Thanks again. Things are getting warmer. It's just a final decision on reliability as I keep hearing stories of some failure with various Kurz models.
Cheers for the latest info.

 

[anotherscott]

One more variable is the action, and that's very subjective. The Artis 7 has too much "pushback" for my tastes, and I swapped in some lighter springs. Other people like the Artis 7 action a lot just as it is. Personally, now I use the PC4-7. I like it's action more than the action in the Artis 7, though not as much as the Artis 7 with the alternate springs. But the PC4-7 has other advantages.

 

[Melodymaker]

Thanks for that too. I had previously noticed the key pushback mentioned in other reviews. I suppose that it's subjective and personal to the player and an unknown until tried for yourself.
I have A Juno DS 76 and can't get on with it. The key action I find slow and I just can't get the quality of sound from it. It takes hours of menu diving and still the sounds are not satisfactory.
I have reverted back to my old Yamaha for my band work at least until I have decided on a replacement.
The search continues ---------

 

[anotherscott]

Yeah, I have a Juno DS61... tons of capability for the weight and the price, but while you can argue about this sound or that, overall, I think the Kurzweils sound better. I haven't played the DS76, which should have a better action than the DS61... I believe it's an unweighted version of the action in the FA07... but not having played it, I can't really comment on how it compares to the others.

 

[Melodymaker]

Yes your right about the DS capability but it's very dependent on the capability of the user which is where I gave up, just too much menu diving for poor results at the end. The key action on the DS 76 is classed as semi weighted and has a nice feel and action but as I said previously I find it a bit slow but that's probably just me.
You DS 61 would be a standard synth action but at least it'll do what you put in without worrying about compensating if it doesn't feel right for your style of playing. It's a bit similar with the VR 09 but the other point with that board is using under size keys which isn't a great move on Roland's part. Full size keys would not have made the board much bigger or heavier. It would be a good idea if some of these manufacturers got some players like us together for a real insight of just what we need from a board. You always hear players say, I would like that Key bed with that OS with those sliders and a set list facility etc etc. Still the manufacturer s do there own thing. Hey ho I waffle again.
Will we ever get our bung for our buck ?

 

[anotherscott]

Yes, DS61 has same action as VR09. My understanding is that the DS76, FA07 and VR730 actions are made by Fatar (though not all the same actions). DS61/VR09 have Roland's least expensive and lightest actions. Roland also makes and has made some much better actions that are pricier (e.g. Jupiter 50, Jupiter 80, Fantom 6 and 7) but I guess using any of those actions on these other boards would have been pricier than using Fatar's on those "mid" boards (to say nothing of what they used on their "budget" models, i.e. DS61/VR09).

I did play an FA-07, I preferred the feel of the Artis 7 (at least with my lighter springs). I don't hate the DS61 keys, but I wouldn't want to play piano on them. One thing about the keys on the DS61 and FA07 (and presumably DS76) is that they get stiffer toward the rear of the key, which doesn't really happen on the Artis 7 or (I believe) on the VR-730. It's not necessarily the worst flaw in the world (depending on what perecentage of the key is affected, and how badly), but it is a factor.