Keyboard-Module Suggestions?

[Alchemy]

I've began to wonder how much my advancing might be hindered by what I have or don't have for what I want to do. Actually, I might really need to refine that thought first, "what it is I really want to do." The answer to that question has inwardly been EVERYTHING!!!
As some of you know, I have a yamaha p-85 piano, Roland JV1080 rack, Yamaha UX-16 interfaces, peavey and roland amps, free software anvil, audacity, soundfont midi player, roland HS60 that needs work, a couple upright pianos. In the past I had two realistic moogs but I can't remember what happened to them. I also had a farfisa stage organ and wurlitzer electric piano. The farfisa was nice but I ruined it somehow. The moogs were nice for quick infinity of short sounds and effects.
When I got the JV I thought a "synth is a synth." However, I haven't even scratched the surface of how to use it. As someone in a JV thread, I just read, generally stated "most JV users never programmed anything on it and just use the presets because the presets are so good." That struck me because that's what I have done and maybe that's what has hindered my advancing into what I want to do. I haven't tried programming because the navigation seems complicated and I think I want to hear changes and mods easily in real time as I play, not just making patches, but maybe it does that, I don't know. Maybe I want a lot more sliders and dials? I do want a quick easy infinity because one of my goals is to create sound variations never heard before that match personal visions. I also want to duplicate some of my favorite songs by others live. Many of those songs are dominantly guitar. Piano can replace guitar nicely many times to give a different sound yet nice in it's own right. Many, not so much.
Anyway, maybe those are the only two main things I'm looking for. To duplicate full songs live solo (without cheesiness I might add) and to have a quick easy infinity of sounds and effects for composing. On the latter, perhaps most often strings, guitar, piano, with infinite manipulation yet also infinite ability for duplicating typically non musical sounds. I just looked at the king korgs and I thought maybe but not sure. I'm not sure how I would like dials rather than sliders for one. I think I want at least 76 keys. 61 makes me slightly claustrophobic even if I use the other 15 keys maybe .1 % of the time and usually by mistake . Maybe I need something like a modern more versatile mini moog with all the modern connectivity, memory etc which I have no idea how to name.
Price wise? I don't know. I doubt I am going to be paying 5K. 700-1K, I'd have to seriously think about and have a good idea that is indeed what I need. 200-500 for what really is what I need perhaps so unless I make a challenge to myself to make what I have work somehow just for the challenge itself.
These are used of course or very good deals on new refurbished or something. I don't do new.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Are you wanting something for live gigging, or just something for studio work? What I really mean is, would a software solution be acceptable, or do you need a hardware-only solution?

If software is okay, consider Arturia's V Collection-- https://www.arturia.com/products/analog-classics/v-collection/overview. You can purchase individual programs, but it's cheaper per program to buy the whole collection, especially if you're lucky enough to grab it while Arturia has a sale going on. I'm embarrassed to say that I mostly just use the presets-- especially with the Modular V, which was the primary reason I bought it (plus, it was on sale for half price at the time). But some of the soft synths aren't too mind-boggling to fiddle with, either using your mouse or a MIDI controller to move the sliders, turn the knobs, etc.

AIR Music Technology also makes some good soft synths, and you can often get them on sale from Plugin Boutique.

Or if you prefer to stick with presets, UVI has some good synth collections-- but they mostly have patches sampled from the actual instruments, as opposed to emulating the full functionality of the instruments in software.

If you want to start with free, there are all sorts of free soft synth plugins, including free emulations of the Mini Moog, the ARP 2600, and a couple of other classics. The home pages for some of them (e.g., the Minimogue) seem to have had their download links removed, but you might still be able to find them for download from some of those web sites that like to catalog free VST software. And you might want to check out https://archive.org/details/HGFortuneNFG, which has many soft synths that were originally created for sale by Günther Hager, but he (re)released them as freeware before he passed away a few years ago.

 

[CowboyNQ]

Al, your post is good because you've outlined a budget and also what you're trying to achieve.

I'm a believer in sticking to what I know, so I offer no commentary on virtual instruments or soft synths. All I'll say is that some people swear by them, and would much prefer them to hardware keyboards.

I also don't know about every keyboard out there. But if it helps, below is a commentary on the ones I use for playing live - what they do, their strengths and weaknesses. None of it may be of much use to you but it may prompt some thoughts to help crystallise what style of keyboard fills the gaps in your current line up.

Piano and Electric Piano

I like to have one keyboard that does this really well. Up until recently I used a Kurzweil SP4-7 - I really liked this 'board a lot. Sounded great and lovely semi-weighted action, nice and light too. However I recently upgraded to a Korg SV1-88, purely because I'm playing a bit more piano live these days than I used to, and I wanted a hammer-action keyboard. I'm very pleased with it. Pros: Sounds really nice, particularly the Wurli and Rhodes which is incredible. I also like the action a lot. Cons: Not versatile at all. Very heavy. Not cheap but I got mine used.

Everything Else

For everything not AP or EP, I'm using a Korg Krome. Pros: Cheaper than a Kronos (which is what I'd REALLY have if I could justify the cost). Highly versatile. Sounds great. I love the big touchscreen and I get along well with Korg's UI. Light as a feather. Bulletproof, nothing ever breaks on it or goes wrong with it. Cons: Organ sounds are only OK. Action is poor - it's kind of unresponsive and squishy feeling, and the keys hinge in a strange place which make it a bit tricky to play songs in keys such as Ab, Gb, Db.

VA

I don't use a dedicated VA 'board playing live except in Experience Floyd, where I really need it to nail some of the sounds. I use a King Korg. Pros: Not expensive. 61 keys. VA sounds are incredibly good. Easy to modify sound during live performance. Very light for taking to gigs. Cons: The non-VA sounds are pretty poor. Has the same nasty action as the Krome,

The gaping hole in my keyboard rig is organ. I'm not much of an organ player and even less of an organ expert, so I make do with the Krome. The other less than ideal aspect about my rig is that it's all Korg, which limits a bit of sound versatility. This was not a deliberate choice, I've used other brands and been very happy with them. It evolved because a) I get along well with Korg keyboards from a UI perspective, and b) they just happened to be the 'boards that did the jobs I needed them to do at a price I was comfortable paying.

It should also be mentioned that I'm not using any of this gear for composing or studio recording. I only play live and I'm only playing covers.

Al, the key message I'd leave you with is do as much research as you can, and really understand what it is you want to do with your keyboards. Make sure you know the ones you have as well as you possibly can, which will help you identify what's missing. Once you know what's missing it should help you direct your research in a really targeted fashion, which in turn will help you understand which keyboards out there will give you what you need.

Good luck!

 

[Alchemy]

Sea and Paul, you guys really rock! Gary too, even if he might be slightly peturbed at me for now This is the most helpful forum I have ever seen.
Of course I'm going to have a lot of thinking to do on this and re reading all of the replies.

 

[happyrat1]

The closest thing you'll find these days to an "Infinity Machine" Is one of these from Music Computing.

http://musiccomputing.com/kami-xl-keyboard-production-station-windows/

$9000 USD to start, ranging up to $20K USD fully loaded with all the options

Of course this may seem like overkill, but it's what a lot of major motion picture studios are using these days for their soundtracks.

Otherwise, we mere mortals end up having to slog along with our Korgs and Kurzweils and Rolands and Yamahas

To basically cover your bases I'd suggest a decent ROMpler like the Korg Krome 88 or the Roland FA-08 or a Yamaha MOX8 plus any half decent analog or virtual analog synth like the King Korg or a Minimoog or a brand spanking new Behringer Deepmind 12 when it's finally released.

Then gradually build up your sound palette by adding other rack modules one at a time and layering them in your compositions using the computer and your ROMpler as a controller.

That's basically how I manage my workflow and I'm fairly happy with the results.

Gary

 

[Alchemy]

Korgs and Kurzweils and Rolands and Yamahas OH MY!
Thanks Gary!

 

[happyrat1]

Really if you think about it, the machines sold by Music Computing these days are really today's version of the old Fairlight Synths from the 80's and 90's.

As far as the basic setup goes though, additional modules abound on Craigslist and Ebay.

An old Korg Triton Rack can be had for around $500 while a used Korg M3M desktop can be found for about $1200. These are synths which originally sold for $3K-$4K and still possess impressive synth and sampled sounds.

Personally I have my eye on an M3M selling in my area.

Then there was a whole slew of Yamaha Motif Racks and Roland Sound Canvas modules available on the market as well.

Then you have some of the modern Analog rack modules as well. Moog released the Moog Mother 32 last year, and older used Nord Racks can be found between $500 and $1000.

Waldorf also makes some kickass VA modules such as my Blofeld Desktop which I'd NEVER sell.

My advice is to let your studio grow organically, finding units which appeal to you as they make themselves available to you.

Serendipity is a huge factor in the act of creation and sometimes you just gotta let the dice land where they may.

Gary

 

[Alchemy]

My advice is to let your studio grow organically, finding units which appeal to you as they make themselves available to you.

That might be the wisest thing yet especially for someone like me who doesn't have a real need. I have done very well buying from live and internet auctions and craigslist as things become available. In fact I have a 4' cube trunk of audio and video modules I got from a large lot of auction misc and haven't put away yet or looked them up. I was only interested in one thing in the lot. Every time I do that and I look stuff up WOW and I actually end up using a lot of it. Problem is, I need to open a gigantic second hand store . I actually have about 16K sq feet of hardware, equipment, electronics from about 30 years of auctions etc. I'm going to check on craigslist right now.
There were 3 synths at a university auction about 16 months ago. They were like yamaha, korg, and kurzweil. I was going to bid like 200-300 each without traveling to try them but they got sniped for like 500-1500 so I'm guessing they had to be pretty good ones knowing that auction and bidders very well but I forget the models.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

The closest thing you'll find these days to an "Infinity Machine" Is one of these from Music Computing.

http://musiccomputing.com/kami-xl-keyboard-production-station-windows/

$9000 USD to start, ranging up to $20K USD fully loaded with all the options

Jeepers cheapers! For $9000 you'd think they could at least give you 88 keys!

 

[Alchemy]

I just found this thing. I 've heard of "prophet" but 1500 is pretty pricey? Lots of knobs! I know nothing about it.
http://columbus.craigslist.org/msg/5811189058.html

I can't believe the moog mg-1's are still going for 500.00 the same as when I got my 2 in 79 and 86.

 

[happyrat1]

The Prophet 08 sold for about 4 grand new.

$1500 is a great price.

It's an all analog board used by tons of pro bands.

If it was going here for that price I'd definitely be considering dropping the cash on it.

It's made by Dave Smith Instruments.

Google it. It's a steal.

Edit >>> It may actually be stolen!! :

Gary

 

[Rayblewit]

The Prophet 08 sold for about 4 grand new.

You mean "profit"

 

[happyrat1]

You mean "profit"

Don't kid yourself. As far as keyboard manufacturing goes Dave Smith Instruments are a small mom and pop operation by comparison to the big boys.

Those boards are 100% analog with tons of discrete components and probably soldered and tuned by hand.

It costs big bux to have live people stand around and use tweezers and soldering guns to create your product.

He's probably lucky if he manages to produce a few hundred or a thousand Prophets per year.

Gary

 

[Alchemy]

I agree and doubt they make near the profit of the big boys. However, custom and small scale is usually hugely more expensive than if the same things were scaled up to high volume. But then there can be other factors. A small scale co might give you a retail price not so far from the wholesale price for one.

 

[Alchemy]

Edit >>> It may actually be stolen!! :

Gary

It could be. Except for right on campus it's about the worst neighborhood around. I'd be afraid to go there. I feel like a deer in an intersection anywhere near that city to begin with.

 

[Alchemy]

"One of these days" when I get to feeling better and after I learn a lot more and figure all this out I want to start a thread for keyboard terms for dingbats like me unless there already is one.

 

[happyrat1]

Google is your friend...

https://www.google.ca/search?num=10...ssary+of+midi+terms&oq=glossary+of+midi+terms

https://www.midi.org/articles/about-midi-part-1-overview

http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Kno...book-Glossary-of-MIDI-and-Digital-Audio-Terms

http://www.midiworld.com/glossary.htm

http://www.personal.kent.edu/~sbirch/Music_Production/MP-II/MIDI/terms.html

http://www.vintagesynth.com/resources/glossary.php

Gary

 

[Alchemy]

Google is your friend...

How did you know???
Friends get kinda boring sometimes though.

No seriously, it would be nice to have a thread don't you think? Problem might be if there were one big list in alphabetical order and adding later, and I have a bunch that aren't in those links.

........................ like "stair luge," rofl. I forget who said that. but then even with that I might need to add a newly found phenomenone like "accidental stair luge" as opposed to the actual keyboard sporting event

 

[happyrat1]

Feel free to start one up if you'd like. You could link to a PDF document where you could make alterations at will. Be forewarned however, that maintaining it and notifying people of updates will become a tedious and thankless task which you will probably end up walking away from in disgust someday as some people will inevitably become resentful and picayune regarding the content and execution.

But if you subscribe to the school of thought that your inner masochist must be appeased then more power to ya

Gary

 

[Alchemy]

Feel free to start one up if you'd like. You could link to a PDF document where you could make alterations at will. Be forewarned however, that maintaining it and notifying people of updates will become a tedious and thankless task which you will probably end up walking away from in disgust someday as some people will inevitably become resentful and picayune regarding the content and execution.

But if you subscribe to the school of thought that your inner masochist must be appeased then more power to ya

Gary

you made me think that wiki should do this, they have definition moderators etc.