Puzzked by Kawai sustain pedal

[buckerfield]

I have had several electric stage pianos over the years and every single one excluding a Wurlitzer would work with a universal 1/4” plug pedal as long as it had a polarity switch. But this Kawai works on something else?

Why does it not work with sustain pedals that work on any other gear I have? I don’t get it. Can anyone help me to understand this?

 

[happyrat1]

The socket is for a half damper pedal with a TRS jack and proprietary wiring to force you to buy their pedal and their pedal only.

Google "Kawai Sustain Pedal" and you'll see what I mean.

 

[buckerfield]

The socket is for a half damper pedal with a TRS jack and proprietary wiring to force you to buy their pedal and their pedal only.

Google "Kawai Sustain Pedal" and you'll see what I mean.

I didn’t realize there were proprietary designs for these pedals. I am disappointed to learn this, but glad that my mind is not simply falling apart! You would shake your head if there was a video showing all the times I went back to this keyboard plugging various pedals in again over and over thinking I must have been drinking the last time I tried, because it simply has to work. Maybe every two or three months? I would end up frustrated and in a major WTF mode.

Ok. So these Kawainians require me to buy their pedal to use this piano. Uh huh. I think rather it is time to get an electronics geek on it and teach this Kawai a lesson!

Thank you Sir Rat. I am not nuts. Yeah!! (At least not nuts until I started googling Kawai sustain pedal - which has hundreds/zillions of comments going round in circles about it. Sigh. Modern progress.)

thanks!

 

[happyrat1]

If you've just dropped a couple of thou on a Kawai stage piano, it's not unreasonable to spend a hundred or two on factory branded accessories.

Like I said, Kawai isn't the only one doing it. Korg, Yamaha, Roland, on certain models it's standard industry practice.

My Numa Compact 2X requires a proprietary triple pedal which costs double the price of a generic one, but for the price of parts for a warranty voiding hackers solution it's a sound investment to simply pay the toll and get on with it.

 

[buckerfield]

Well this particular Kawai is a 20 year old CL20 entry level keyboard. It has midi out and the keyboard has a good playability that I enjoy. Perhaps dropped a couple of hun, not thou. It came with a switch style sustain, not even a Kawai, but it functions. I really dislike the footswitch, but it seems I may be stuck with it.

I do like your thought of ‘pay the toll and get on with it’. I think you are definitely spot on with that had I a more expensive unit. But this is what I have. Moreso - suffer the shortcomings and get by with it.

I’ve been slow to adapt to the evolving world with hands out for extra charges ever more and more. I bought a bunch of Native Instruments software a few years ago. That is turning into a schmozle too. I didn’t know they too would try to bleed me ever after. The pamphlet should have explained that they would start to cancel what they promise and I would be left holding little. Crazy world. Very disappointing.

 

[happyrat1]

This is why I never use soft synths.

Eventually an update breaks the software and you're stuck with no way to fix it except throw more money at it.

 

[buckerfield]

Yes that is probably a good idea to pull away from soft synths. I have had multiple things get in the way. As example, I picked up a very robust mac pro laptop and installed Logic and it runs sweeet. I was curious to hook an ipad to it - it seemed like fun at least. I bought a new ipad 2 yrs ago and hokked them together. Not ground breaking stuff, but I was pleased to get it up and running. Since the ipad was new I thought I would keep it updated (hard not to with all the cr*p that happens if you dont.)

My reward for this- a recent update on the ipad now requires updated OS on the macpro in order to connect. The Pro can’t go any higher. The rotten Apples through a curve I didn’t realize and they decided mylaptop is garbage. I bought it to work with my gear, it did for 20 months, then they took it away. I really don’t know how younger folks are so calm about getting screwed in this way - it leaves me livid! Companies should just be honest and say we are just get short term leasing access.

Sorry to gripe. Anyways, I have to go work on my pre computer chip Ford truck. Runs great! And yeah, that Wurlitzer still kicks ass too - 52 years later.

 

[happyrat1]

I went with a Mac Mini M2 2 years ago so I was covered with the Logic Pro 11 upgrade.

Requirements are minimum, Apple Silicon M1 or higher and OS 13 or higher.

How old is your Macbook and how much did you pay for it?

If it's older than a decade, then nobody can reasonably expect Apple to continue support it.

How about running time machine to restore a working version on the iPad?

 

[buckerfield]

I went with a Mac Mini M2 2 years ago so I was covered with the Logic Pro 11 upgrade.

Requirements are minimum, Apple Silicon M1 or higher and OS 13 or higher.

How old is your Macbook and how much did you pay for it?

If it's older than a decade, then nobody can reasonably expect Apple to continue support it.

How about running time machine to restore a working version on the iPad?

Thanks for the input. I was just checking out my first and only Thread here in Jun2019 when I picked up the macbook and was trying to sort out getting started. A couple of members were quite helpful then it seems I just tapered off. I should add a post to update. There was a big learning curve jumping right in and a couple of wrong hardware choices had me doomed for a bit. I persevered though and got the hang of basic recording and editing and have had some fun.

The i7 computer runs excellent. The Logic X is stone solid and the library on that coupled with an ultimate collection of Native Instruments programs and vsts (was 10 I bought and registerd with NI - apparently old already, but I paid quite a bit for it) I have learning opportunies until well past dead. The NI tools are great. There are so many things in it I would like to explore. I’m quite happy using this gear and it all works very wellexcept for any ‘support’ that comes my way if I even touch the wifi on. I truly did believe I would be able to log in to NI online and download ‘my’ software licensed and paid for whenever I needed it. But they sabotage me already at sign in. There is no reason they can’t accommodate my computer without requiring updates that Apple won’t provide.

That said, I may upgrade when I can’t limp along any longer if I can afford it. Multiple thousand dollar personal purchases is a section I left out of retirement planning. Really, I just spent quite a bit getting set up. Top end macbook cost me 900.00. Plus Logic, NI collection, focusrite clarett interface, NI 48 note board, the Kawai piano, cabling, microphones, kybd stands, mic stands, good lord it added up. And my remote rural pencil sharpening business isn’t making the money I hoped it would. So…

The Mini you mention does sound good though. It would be the one major upgrade I would need. Then I could get on with being updated. For a couple/three years I would hope. I would be nervous to lose previous recordings if I upgrade to 11. Then it needs to play nice with the NI product which just seems to yell glitch to me. I think I have become the iconic grumpy old man!

I didn’t know about restoring software off of Wayback. I will look at that. I am still miffed though that Apple would instruct my Ipad to disallow my ‘not supported’ computer. It is not fair and my government sadly disappoints again for allowing a lot of these practices. Apple does not have to design software they already have. They simply are issuing death warrants on gear. They want me to give them more money.

So yeah. The Kawai pedal. I think it is time I engage my Raiders of the Lost Electronics inner force and indeed hack my way to a working pedal. I’m pretty sure if I bought a new Kawaii pedal, the piano would have a breakdown within the week and I’d be stuck with another albatross pedal. Sigh.

 

[happyrat1]

Really we're talking about apple's dropping support for Intel silicon.

You have to ask yourself if you bought in at the beginning or the ending of that support?

The M2 chip in my mini was kewl new beans when I bought it. And there are people on this forum who are still running the M1 chip when it came out.

We have yet to hear from @Biggles how the upgrade worked for him or not.

But my understanding is that the M1 chip is pushing 10 years of age as well.

Honestly I want nothing to do with Intel Silicon these days. Those chips have exploits built intro them years ago and never properly addressed.

Even in the early days I went with an Atari ST and the Motorola 68000 instead of the horrible intel 80's series.

M$ rules in business but art and music are Apple's wheelhouse.

 

[rikkisbears]

Hi HappyRat, bit late but, thank you for the info on the pedals. I actually had a spare Kawai pedal from my es920 that I wasn’t using , so I thought I’d use it for my PA5x . Could never get it to connect. Just assumed pedal must have been faulty . Think I also tried it with mysx900. I no longer had a way of testing it , I had sold the piano.

I’d never come across the problem before, most of my pedals had been generic , just flick the switch and change the polarity.

Thanks again.

 

[amwilburn]

Most on/off pedals are 1 of 2 polarities, so yes, the work with each other (Roland, Yamaha are the same polarity; Korg & Casio are the other; I think Kawai is with the latter, too) but for the *half* damper pedals? they are not interchangeable, no. The DP10 damper works in on/off mode on any Yamaha, but if you switch it to half damper mode, it suddenly doesn't work on any Yamaha.

Heck, the Yamaha FC3(a) half damper pedal doesn't even work on some Yamahas (that are expecting on/off only). It *does* work on a Genos or Tyros, but not as a half damper! Volume control, pitch bend, yes. But not half damper!

I trying different analog sustain pedals with each other, I found *one* that oddly worked, and that was Yamaha's on a Korg (Kronos? Krome? M3-88? Forgot which one I was playing on) but generally speaking, half damper sustained pedals are *not* compatible with each other

Mark

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www.youtube.com/MarkWilburnTLM/Videos
DX7, CLP300, PSR60, Roland E20, CVP309, PSRS970, Fender Strat, Ibanez SA262, Yamaha CG131, Fujiyama FC390, TUC-Kitty

 

[rikkisbears]

Thanks Mark,
I currently have 3 sustain pedals for my PA5x, one of them is a Korg half damper which I use for sustain ( still haven’t worked out what the benefit is , as I only play it in split arranger mode using piano voice) maybe as solo piano I would notice something.
Probably should have just stuck with 3 generics
The other 2 , I just use for vari up and down. They work on any of my keyboards.

Literally had no idea about half damper pedals and compatibility issues.

Blamed it on senior moment when I couldn’t get it to work , packed it up and put it away, Glad to read it wasn’t me after all