Questions about types of keyboards

[ozrider]

Hi folks,

I'm new to the whole digital keyboard world.

I am currently using

• mainstage with a macbook
• an old Technics P30 (but I also have an old Roland A33) - I like old gear!
• additional Native plugins

I love the P30 because of the keybed, the clean topdeck, but it has its own sounds and so I thought if the computer failed when playing out I'd have backup. The Roland is pure midi interface but light! So, one of my concerns is about weight, as I've got an old back injury that flares up if its cold and I've had this happen to me just before a gig when lifting gear (I used to be a bassist). So, I'm planning on light setup going fwd.

Questions:

• are there keyboards that host their own libraries of sounds and internal processing, but can add libraries like the ones in Native?
• should I invest in a keyboard that can do the mainstage thing (if this exists), or does mainstage just do it all the layering etc that much better?

Thanks for reading and any advice offered.

 

[Chris Laarman]

With weight an issue, you won't want to consider keyboards that feature weighted keys (resembling the touch of a piano), nor full-size (88 keys) models. (I assume that you have considered using something with wheels to move the keyboard between your car and the stage.)

I understand your use of "Native" as referring to maker "Native Instruments" of the "Komplete" software (synthesizers and effects) bundle and of the "Komplete Kontrol" keyboard controllers.

You may be interested in NI's S-line of keyboard controllers, probably the S-49 (with 49 keys). They are mere controllers (meaning: they don't themselves have sounds), but they feature a touchscreen that is useful when using Komplete software or software from others that follows "NKS" ("Native Kontrol Standard", see near the bottom of that page).

Hope This Helps. ;-)

 

[Biggles]

Yes, there are such keyboards and with many of them you can add additional sounds.

Checkout Roland’s O series as with this fairly new keyboard you can add from Roland’s library of sounds.

There is a big but in all such keyboards in that if you want an 88 key unit then they can be very heavy, eg a Roland Juno DS 88 is 35lbs, a Korg Kross 2 88 is 27 lbs.

Then there again the keybed‘s do vary considerably in feel and quality so I doubt that anyone here will say buy this keyboard.

I am not sure if you would actually benefit from an all in one keyboard as whatever the make you would have another steep learning curve to go up to get to grips with its operating system.

Do a search for keyboard workstations and look at the many video tutorials that are online.

The link below is for the Roland Product Support’s Youtube channel playlist for the O series that I quoted earlier, all keyboards will operate in a similar fashion yet still detailed operating knowledge is not easily transferrable from one to the other.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmLJ2Wanv6-DlGJ4PxAE-ejdvBUypAOE9

 

[ozrider]

Thanks for the info. I also went to one of our local stores today and got served by this nice fellow who talked me through things and about his own rig.

So far, I've figured if I go with the A33 (76 key midi) or something similar it will be much lighter, but I would prob pair it with Mainstage (plus the Native plugins), and I'm already somewhat comfortable with the software. But safety of the gear at gigs and reliability could be downsides. I'm prob not planning to gig for several months at least, so there's time to explore stand alones ...

Chris, yes that's the what I was meaning, and I do have a trolley, but its usually lifting in or loading the car that is a treacherous for the back.

Thanks for the heads up on the Roland series O, I assume you mean the Fantom? Will do more research on these

 

[Chris Laarman]

Thanks for the info. I also went to one of our local stores today and got served by this nice fellow who talked me through things and about his own rig.

So far, I've figured if I go with the A33 (76 key midi) or something similar it will be much lighter, but I would prob pair it with Mainstage (plus the Native plugins), and I'm already somewhat comfortable with the software. But safety of the gear at gigs and reliability could be downsides. I'm prob not planning to gig for several months at least, so there's time to explore stand alones ...

Chris, yes that's the what I was meaning, and I do have a trolley, but its usually lifting in or loading the car that is a treacherous for the back.

Thanks for the heads up on the Roland series O, I assume you mean the Fantom? Will do more research on these

I'm also curious as to the Roland O-series, as I don't see such things listed. As to Fantom: there is an older Fantom-series (-6/-7/-8) and a newer (-06/-07/-08). The "Fantom-0" synths are slightly less powerful, considerably cheaper and considerably lighter than the older ones. Yet, I have the Fantom-08 (88 keys, the only of its bunch with somewhat weighted keys), and even this one is too heavy for you. (It was the first time that I factored weight in as a consideration: I had been willing to pay for the older Fantom 8, but not for the forklift I'd need.) ;-)

 

[anotherscott]

While many keyboards can be used as controllers for Mainstage, and many of these keyboards have their own sounds as well, a reason to look at the Fantom-0 in particular is that it has additional built-in support specifically for Mainstage, making it a bit more seamless than using a generic controller, and the 61/76 key versions are quite light.

 

[ozrider]

I found a youtube vid that said you can export from the Fantom-O to the computer, and control external sounds, but has little memory to import sounds/patches.

The youtuber mentioned the Korg Nautilus

 

[anotherscott]

I found a youtube vid that said you can export from the Fantom-O to the computer

Sure, but export can mean many different things. You can export a song as a wav, you can export a sequence as a MIDI file, you can export a tone for transfer to another compatible product including your computer for editing in zenology...

and control external sounds

Yes, it can function as a controller for external sounds as well, up to 16 zones.

but has little memory to import sounds/patches.

IIRC, in terms of sounds, it has 2 GB memory to import pad-triggerable samples, 256 mb for keyboard-playable instrument samples. A for patches, I don't know how many user tones it supports.

The youtuber mentioned the Korg Nautilus

In general, Nautilus does have the highest capacities.

 

[Chris Laarman]

This keyboard-thread was started by a bass player who has pain lifting. So let's pay attention to weight.

I collected some data from Thomann (my default store). As weight seems irrelevant regarding basses, I put my Harley Benton MJ-4EB on my scales. I read 4.7kg, a reviewer mentioned 4.5kg and found that heavy for a 4-string bass.

Now the synthesizers. Mind the sizes, implied by the number of keys, implied by the model number.
Roland Fantom-6: 15.3kg
Roland Fantom-06: 6.0kg
Korg Nautilus 61: 13.0kg.

Owned:
Roland A-33: 7.7kg (from the Roland manual)
Technics P30: data not found

So, the lightest keyboard mentioned so far is heavier than a bass guitar considered heavy...

 

[anotherscott]

I wouldn't assume the keyboard must be lighter than a bass, just because he used to be a bassist... maybe the gear he had the most issues lifting before a gig was the amp! And at least he's not likely to be wearing the keyboard while playing... ;-) Really, I think the key is that he considers the A33 to be light. As you said, the Roland A33 was 7.7 kg, and again as you illustrated, the Fantom-06 is lighter than that.

 

[Chris Laarman]

I wouldn't assume the keyboard must be lighter than a bass, just because he used to be a bassist... maybe the gear he had the most issues lifting before a gig was the amp! And at least he's not likely to be wearing the keyboard while playing... ;-) Really, I think the key is that he considers the A33 to be light. As you said, the Roland A33 was 7.7 kg, and again as you illustrated, the Fantom-06 is lighter than that.

You may have missed message #4. ;-)

 

[anotherscott]

You may have missed message #4. ;-)

But again in message #4, he is suggesting that the 7.7 kg of the A33 is light enough for him, i.e. when he said "I've figured if I go with the A33 (76 key midi) or something similar it will be much lighter" {than the P30}.

I think the point remains that he's looking for something within the A33 weight range, but possibly capable of doing things the A33 cannot (i.e. the ability to use internal sounds).

 

[Biggles]

I found a youtube vid that said you can export from the Fantom-O to the computer, and control external sounds, but has little memory to import sounds/patches.

The youtuber mentioned the Korg Nautilus

I would think very carefully about buying any Korg at present.

The Management seem to have been in turmoil for a while, Korg Italy has been decimated, Korg UK have lost staff.

They released the Pa5X a year ago with considerably less functionality than the outgoing model, yet stating that upgrades will happen. It seems not before Dec at least but in time honoured Korg fashion of the past in reality it is likely to be the end of Q1 or well into Q2 and even then what they will provide is unknown.

Korg have not released anything significant since the Natilus and even then that is old tech, a cut down Kronos.

I am a Korg fan and do hope they turn things around vut until they do this is one guy who is keeping his cash.

 

[ozrider]

Hey thanks people. That's all very organised of you. The p30 is lovely beast (17kg),and has internal sounds, so if there's a stuff up with mainstage/laptop I still have piano, synth and rhodes sound. I started another thread about weight saving as I was hoping to swap out the back panel (thread here) to make it lighter. 13kg for the nautilus is better... but that's interesting but sad about Korg.

I took the A33 out to rehearsal, and the keybed isn't as nice a feel as the P30, but it's like most of the midi keyboards with a synth style action. Being a bass player, I'm not sure I'm gelling with the lack of tactile resistance that a weighted board has. Hmm... everything is a trade off I guess. I'm looking forward to when my son is older and can cart my gear around for me...

 

[happyrat1]

Shipping weight 550 grams

https://www.amazon.ca/CAHAYA-Melodica-Portable-Mouthpiece-Beginners/dp/B0728GCXFK/

 

[Chris Laarman]

Shipping weight 550 grams

https://www.amazon.ca/CAHAYA-Melodica-Portable-Mouthpiece-Beginners/dp/B0728GCXFK/

LOL - Not exactly a synth, eh? ;-)

I have a 37-key version of this, with a most penetrating sound. (Might be useable as an Indian shruti, though.) Elsewhere in the family, there must be an original Hohner Melodica, with the small white keys right-handed and the small black keys left-handed, with a far milder sound.

 

[happyrat1]

I take mine out and about in the summertime, being careful to stay out of most people's earshot when I practice al fresco.

 

[happyrat1]

BTW?

I side with the Roland Fantom - 0X series. It's the latest and greatest while being less software dependent than Korg (the king of the million obscure functions buried in the buggy firmware) Nautilus. It's more of a player's instrument.

I can see the similarities with the Juno DS88 I once owned and it's beautifully laid out with rapidly accessible mechanical controls as well as a touchscreen.