Rebuilding my Rig. Wanting to go full-on iPad-based.

[MikeyParent]

Hello all. After my last band folded I got kinda bummed and "withdrew" from all things musical. I sold my old Muse Receptor and moved on with my life. After being away from all this stuff for like 4 years I recently got contacted by an old bandmate and I am getting the itch again.

Before my last band collapsed, I was using (in addition to my vocal gear as singing is my primary thing) an M-Audio Axiom Pro and a Roland AX-7 driving an *early* Muse Receptor. I have since sold off my Receptor but still have the Axiom and the Keytar.

For some time back then I was toying with the idea of an iPad-based rig. I just totalled up all the music app purchases I made back then and it shocked me so I figure with that investment, I owe it to myself (with a potential venture in the works) to revisit this.

iMIDIPATCHBAY *seems* to be the thing that was missing from the equation back in the day: a way to tie the apps into a cohesive setup with a controller.

So who out there is using iPads in a live setting and what has your experience been like? Receommendations? Pitfalls? etc.


Thanks!

Mike

 

[MikeyParent]

Even tho there have been no responses. I will continue to document my journey for future generations LOL.

Things have stepped up since I was successful in an audition to be the male vocalist and 2nd keys player in a 6-piece 80s party band.

Since the last post I have acquired/ordered:

• iMIDIPatchBay
• Korg iM1
• New iPad 32GB
• Mic Stand iPad holder (my old one didnt fit)
• Yamaha BT-10 Bluetooth MIDI adapter (my iRig MIDI was for 30-pin)

Now to start tinkering!

 

[happyrat1]

Congrats on your new gig.

As for the usability of soft synths on stage? There's plenty of debate on the subject in other threads.

Feel free to jump in.

Gary

 

[MikeyParent]

All I could ind that was remotely relevant was this:

https://www.keyboardforums.com/threads/performing-live-with-ipad.25394/#post-169420

Maybe I am not as good at searching as I thought I was LOL.

And I may not have been clear in my OP: I am trying to build a keyboard rig around the iPad exclusively. There seems to be very little info out there on how to bring all the various ios synth apps together in a cohesive setup.

I want to hook up to 2 controllers to my iPad and be able to make a single PC on one controller to feed all the ios synth PCs, preferably with iMIDIPatchBay or something similar.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I don't use an iPad in a live performance setup, so I have no experience from which to recommend a specific app. But I'm very much interested in hearing how this all works out for you, so please keep us posted with reviews of the various apps and hardware devices.

 

[Fred Coulter]

My (uneducated) two cents.

I'm generally against bringing computers on stage. An iPad is a low powered computer. Therefore I'm against it.

On the other hand, there are people on this forum (and elsewhere) who don't share my prejudices and successfully use computers on stage. My biggest question is whether the iPad is powerful enough to use live for music. How much polyphony can it support before running into lag issues. How complicated a sound can it create.

I've seen piano samples measure in the gigabytes. I've seen pipe organ samples that are even bigger. Can an iPad handle this?

 

[MikeyParent]

I understand your concerns Fred. The thing is, all modern synthesizers are also just computers in a different case basically, tho admittedly purpose built.

I actually think that an iPad could in some ways be superior to a computer in this situation:
- Storage is not mechanical (i.e. traditional hard drive, and yes I know about SSD)
- Its more of an appliance in that the user cannot configure or modify the OS, nor the internal hardware
- The OS is designed specifically for the hardware it runs on
- Its much faster boot and load times


As far as sounds go, in addition to versions of PC mainstays GarageBand, SampleTank and Rebirth I have pretty good emulations of
- MiniMoog
- Korg Poly Six
- Korg M1
- Korg MS-20
- Korg Electribe

There is also a soundfont player when all else fails.

RE: Piano samples and polyphony - I dont really need a concert quality piano sound but iGrandPiano sounds certainly "good enough" for what I would ever need. Here it is running on an OLD-AF iPad and I am not hearing any note dropout.

Organs:

RE: Complexity - LAYR (for making pads) apparently allows 128 voice and envelopes up to 100s long.

The sounds and the horsepower are there. My issue is more along the lines of how to put all the pieces together. My fear is that the maturity of apps is not there for putting this together in a live setup - that it can be done but it might be painful

 

[MikeyParent]

Update:

So I have run into a couple issues/limitations with iMIDIPatchBay trying to use it in this fashion:

Setlists: a great feature, in theory, however in practice, not so much:
- You cannot backup your setlists to dropbox like you can the patches (not a dealbreaker but it really should be an option)
- The patch numbers for setlist songs change when you re-order them, making external MIDI PC pretty much DOA. I would have to switch patches using iMIDIPatchBay. Am I missing something here?

Multiple Masters: After wasting $14 CAD on unlocking the multiple masters IAP I discovered its essentially useless (to me). While you can have multiple master keyboards running on different MIDI channels, the app essentially sums it the inputs: I cannot route a MIDI master input channel to a particular instrument slot. This is an issue because on my physical MIDI controllers (Axiom, Ax7) I want to be able to quickly switch tones during a performance. For example, on my AX-7 each patch has an Upper and lower which I can layer or split or simply flip between. While I could transmit on the same channel and transpose the octaves and do essentially an iMIDIPatchBay split to do the two sounds, this is cumbersome - I then have to do an octave transpose in iMIDIPatchBay as well to compensate.

I am beginning to think that there is no single app that allows me to do what I want.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I bought Cubasis when it was on sale for half price, although I haven't taken the time to actually use it yet. (Shame on me!) I've also got a few virtual instruments-- well, I've got a lot of free virtual instrument apps, although I'm not sure how many of them can be used as plugins with Cubasis, but I also bought the Cubasis add-on instruments at half price. I'll connect my iPad to my Axiom keyboard later today and see what I can do using Cubasis.

 

[MikeyParent]

Cool Thanks 'Gruff!

 

[MikeyParent]

Another update - my bluetooth MIDI adapter arrived. Yamaha MD-BT01

I plugged it in and had to use IM1 to get the bluetooth MIDI up and running on the iPad. The signal however was very unreliable. Worked fine on my Axiom tho just not on the AX7. Maybe USB/AC powered VS battery powered?

Anyways, I ran the Yamaha app and updated the firmware and all was good. Range was decent as well.

 

[Fred Coulter]

The signal however was very unreliable.

What's the distance between the two devices. Bluetooth is a very short range broadcast.

 

[MikeyParent]

Right next to it. Was definitely a firmware problem. Once I updated the firmware it was great! I could walk a good 20 feet away and no drops.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

What's the distance between the two devices. Bluetooth is a very short range broadcast.

Yeah, I've noticed that when using a Bluetooth mouse and Bluetooth keyboard with my tablets. It seems kind of pointless to have devices connected wirelessly if you can't get a reliable signal unless the devices are close together-- you could actually get more distance between them by using a wired connection!

On a more embarrassing note, while reviewing the manual for my Axiom keyboard controller, I realized that it has aftertouch! It even says so on the box! And I've only had it for more than five years!

 

[MikeyParent]

**Update**

First show this past weekend - light usage this time; I am gradually working keys into the setlist as vocals is my primary duty.

My config:

**Hardware**
Roland AX7 Controller
Yamaha MD-BT01 Bluetooth Adapter
iPad 2017 32GB

**Middleware**
OnSong for lyrics and notes - I have it setup to send MIDI PC info to the relevant channel based on what song is selected

**Synths**
Korg iM1
Animoog
Poison-202
Sunrizer
Magellan

**Post-mortem**
Worked well enough, though it still feels a bit clunky. I would like to figure out a way to further streamline things.

While Animoog responds to PC msgs it has a couple issues that make me think I will ditch it:

1) It is not as stable as I would like. For the second time using it now in a show/rehearsal situation, it was non-responsive. I will likely get in the habit of shutting down and restarting all synth apps pre-show.
2) It is locked to a specific DEVICE transmitting AND a specific channel. This means I cannot get it to respond to performance data from the AX7 (over the bluetooth adapter) while simultaneously listening for PC changes from OnSong. This may be an issue going forward.

As a related aside, except for Animoog which behaves as above, the synths are getting sent PC info twice: once from the AX7 when I change patches (no way to disable this AFAIK) and once from OnSong. I think I would like to streamline this to reduce any chance for weirdness.

I am strongly considering introducing MIDIFlow into the setup and route everything through it. I do wish more apps recognized and responded to PC msgs :/

Something I just thought of - I may also experiment with having OnSong send msgs to the AX7 to change the patch number. Not even sure if this is possible, but it would definitely help juggling things during song changes.