Shipping Damage and no Support Question

[MotifX]

Hi All, Bought a new Roland RD800 from RMC. It came in the factory box crushed on one side. The tight plastic wrap torn over the rotary controller and surrounding switches.
Looking closer, using my straight edge, the keyboard is also bent in the center!
The encoder is erratic and so is the INC switch. So I call RMC to open a concealed damage report with the shipper. He starts screaming at me, telling me its impossible.
So I email Roland, they say to send it to my nearest repair center for inspection!
Trouble is, its in the next state, with a three week backlog@ $90 an hour, on a new board.
What do you all think I should do with it? I can send it back, lose 10%, shipping costs, and it has to be double boxed! Why double box? RMC just uses the factory box only.
I feel let down from RMC and Roland for not helping with a damaged piano.
I still want and like the piano, just not a damaged one.
What would you do?
MotifX

 

[happyrat1]

First of all you should have taken digital photographs the second you spotted the damaged packaging.

At this point a lot depends on the consumer laws in your state/province/location and whether or not they have any sort of consumer protection regarding large purchases.

At the very least I'd say file a complaint with the better business bureau both in your home state as well as in the state of the vendor.

After that your only other option is the small claims court route holding him liable for damages and subsequent repair costs.

All this will cost you in the long run is time, but depending on whether or not the vendor has weasel words in his purchase contract and whether or not he actually offered extra insurance at the time of purchase it could still swing either way.

No matter what though, if you have to ship it to Roland at this point that's what you'll have to do, but keep all your receipts and documents so you can still file a small claims action.

Gary

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I agree about the pictures-- before having ever opened the package. Also, I presume it was delivered by some carrier-- UPS, FedEx, etc.-- so you could contact them and ask about it. Was it bashed in like that when it was picked up from RMC? Was it bashed in when it arrived at the local facility? Did it get damaged on the plane? Did the delivery person damage it somehow?

 

[happyrat1]

The problem with trying to hold the carrier liable is that the moment he signed for it he accepted delivery and it was his obligation to inspect the packaging for damages.

Fedex or UPS or whatever gets off scott free. Even then if you could hold the shipping company liable they would argue that it was incorrectly packaged and should have been double boxed to begin with.

His only hope of recouping repair and return shipping costs is to go after the vendor, hopefully after building the strongest possible case.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, just the threat of a small claims action might be enough to force them to settle. It would work out cheaper than sending a representative to the OPs home state to spend a day in court.

However the vendor might also be a sleazeball type who ignores court orders and judgements and will simply ignore the court's decision.

Remember, winning a case and actually getting money out of the guilty party are two different things

Gary

 

[MotifX]

First of all you should have taken digital photographs the second you spotted the damaged packaging.

At this point a lot depends on the consumer laws in your state/province/location and whether or not they have any sort of consumer protection regarding large purchases.

At the very least I'd say file a complaint with the better business bureau both in your home state as well as in the state of the vendor.

After that your only other option is the small claims court route holding him liable for damages and subsequent repair costs.

All this will cost you in the long run is time, but depending on whether or not the vendor has weasel words in his purchase contract and whether or not he actually offered extra insurance at the time of purchase it could still swing either way.

No matter what though, if you have to ship it to Roland at this point that's what you'll have to do, but keep all your receipts and documents so you can still file a small claims action.

Gary

 

[MotifX]

I did take pictures and I did file a complaint with the BBB.
You would think RMC would take care of their customers, But their refusal to open a concealed damage report with FedEX, has left me without the keyboard.

 

[happyrat1]

Did RMC offer additional insurance as an option in your cart when you purchased it? If so, you should have opted for it.

Much as I hate to say it, it's up to the buyer to investigate an online store and read their policies FAQs before they type in that credit card number.

A lot of music stores offer a free shipping option as a hook but the flip side of that is that the carrier only insures against a $100 max claim if there's damage or loss. But the option should have been there to fully insure the item as well at nominal cost.

Anyway, you've done all that you could so far, except for signing for the package if there was evidence of damage to the exterior.

Now, like it or not, your only option is to ship it to Roland on your nickel and keep a record of the total costs to file a claim in small claims court the minute you know the total cost to you.

Welcome to the wonderful world of free enterprise. The courts are your only option now and nobody's going to reimburse you for the time you spend waiting for the unit to come back from the shop.

Sorry man, but those are the breaks.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

I just took a look at RMC's website and I gotta say the whole place looks like a pretty shady operation. They only stock a few keyboards all from Roland and Yamaha and they go out of their way not to list any actual prices.

Everything is "call for a quote" and "we'll beat the lowest advertised price."

I couldn't even load up a sample cart to see whether or not additional insurance is an option.

Their shipping FAQ clearly states that they offer free Fedex shipping on purchases over $99 but nothing is mentioned about insurance on the purchases.

If I were shopping around for a $1000 keyboard I would have steered clear of these guys in a heartbeat. They look like a really sleazy fly by night operation.

Where the hell on the web did you find them to begin with?

Now you're stuck going to court over this. Sorry man, but the world has a lot of bad people out there and caveat emptor is more than a meaningless phrase in a dead language.

Gary

 

[MotifX]

I just took a look at RMC's website and I gotta say the whole place looks like a pretty shady operation. They only stock a few keyboards all from Roland and Yamaha and they go out of their way not to list any actual prices.

Everything is "call for a quote" and "we'll beat the lowest advertised price."

I couldn't even load up a sample cart to see whether or not additional insurance is an option.

Their shipping FAQ clearly states that they offer free Fedex shipping on purchases over $99 but nothing is mentioned about insurance on the purchases.

If I were shopping around for a $1000 keyboard I would have steered clear of these guys in a heartbeat. They look like a really sleazy fly by night operation.

Where the hell on the web did you find them to begin with?

Now you're stuck going to court over this. Sorry man, but the world has a lot of bad people out there and caveat emptor is more than a meaningless phrase in a dead language.

Gary

 

[MotifX]

Hello Gary, I found RMC in a web search for Roland RD-800. I admit it seemed too good to be true. Roland knows about the damages, and promised to have the rep talk with RMC, but nothing has been done. When I bought it, it was a wait for Roland to supply, because of a recall on the power supply. They did not offer any extra insurance for the shipment.
The single box shipment was not the way to go. Looking at the website, it lists that items must be double boxed. Not sure why they would refuse to help, except maybe they didn't insure it.
MotifX

 

[happyrat1]

Well you blew it yourself when you signed for the damaged package. But that's water under the bridge.

RMC looks like the type of fly by night operation that cuts costs everywhere in order to maximize profits. They probably shipped it uninsured hoping the law of averages was on their side.

They do mention in their shipping policy faq that oversized items are not always double boxed. But keep on dealing with Roland on this matter. You might cost RMC their distributor rights as a Roland authorized dealer.

Maybe you'll end up having to take them to court or at least threatening to and MAYBE you'll get your costs back, but all in all you have to chalk this one up to some very expensive lessons learned.

The cheapest price is not always the best price.

NEVER sign for a package if you suspect the merchandise is damaged.

Gary

 

[SeaGtGruff]

NEVER sign for a package if you suspect the merchandise is damaged.

Unfortunately, sometimes the deliverer will leave the package at the door even if no one is home to sign for it-- this can depend on whether the item is large or small, but it can also depend on any delivery instructions that the seller gave to the deliverer. I would hope that anything as large as a keyboard would need to be signed for-- but as I said, it's possible for the seller to give the deliverer instructions such as "Leave at door if no one is home." Presumably any seller that cares about their customers would never do that, but I've gotten deliveries for books, software, and DVDs that had notes like that on them-- although the sellers (Amazon, Best Buy, Barnes & Noble, etc.) had good policies concerning returns, damages, missing or incorrect items, etc.

 

[happyrat1]

RMC states in their shipping policy FAQ that items over $100 in value require a signature.

The simple fact of the matter is that signature pretty much absolves the carrier of responsibilty for damages and places the onus on the receiver to insure the package arrived without damage before accepting delivery.

As far as it goes, if the OP had simply refused the package at the door the headache would have been RMC's and this thread would not exist.

As for Amazon, they offer their customers a 100% satisfaction guarantee on their deliveries and they make good on any thefts or damages which may happen. Personally I am always careful when dealing with a new vendor and read their policies carefully before I commit to an order.

In this case I realize the OP had the opportunity to refuse but we've all been there. Ordered a new keyboard, waited up to a week for delivery or longer if a backorder, then see something iffy on the package and don't want to wait up til a month for the item to be returned and a new one shipped out. We're all kids in candy stores when it comes to new gear.

One time when I ordered a Korg TR76 it arrived with a 6 inch tear in the box. The driver pointed it out to me and offered me the opportunity to open the package and inspect for damage while he waited. That was Purolator shipping in Canada. Upshot is the keyboard looked OK and I accepted delivery, but I could just as easily have wound up in the OP's same boat. I'd also spent the extra $10 for full insurance coverage on the shipment so that's why the driver was so nice.

Sometimes you take a chance and you win and other times you lose. Too bad it can end up being the only game in town.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

One thing you could do is trash these guys on resellerratings.com

I can't believe they have 5 star status.

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/RMC_Audio

 

[happyrat1]

Some interesting threads about them on Google as well. Apparently these guys are loved by many in the internet community.

https://www.google.ca/search?num=10....0....0...1c.1.52.hp..7.15.1728.0.rsTO0Ea_aYE

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Some interesting threads about them on Google as well. Apparently these guys are loved by many in the internet community.

Ah, but are they loved by real customers or just sock puppets?

Sorry, I couldn't resist! It's entirely possible that 99.9% of the time the shipping and delivery goes smoothly and there are no damages or other problems.

 

[happyrat1]

One other thing about dealing with RMAs in general. If you approach the vendors with rants and obscenities about how they screwed up they will naturally assume a defensive stance.

It pays to be firm but polite, treat them like a human being and try to approach things from a reasonable angle for all concerned.

If you scream and rave at a CSR you will accomplish nothing but tick the guy off and screw yourself deeper into the hole.

Realistically speaking what exactly did the CSR offer?

No returns whatsoever?

They would RMA the return but the customer would eat the return shipping? If that's their policy it may still be the best option.

They simply washed their hands of the matter and shuttled off the responsibility to Roland warranty support?

EDIT >>> I just looked at their return policy. They offer full store credit toward a replacement. The 10% restocking fee only applies to cash refunds.

Seriously, why don't you just eat the shipping costs and return it on your own nickel for an exact replacement?

If you're nice to the guys you might even get them to eat the return shipping costs.

I think a lot of the reason you're in this mess is because you blew up at the guy and demanded a 100% refund plus return shipping costs.

Sometimes you have to meet people half way.

It's rare that any vendor pays return shipping on an RMA.

As for double boxing, tell them they shipped it to you in a single box and you will return it in the condition they sent it to you.

I really see no reason to bring Roland into this at all.

This whole thing could have been avoided if the OP read their Shipping FAQ and Returns Policies before he laid down his cash and flew off the handle to begin with.

http://www.rmcaudiodirect.com/articles.asp?ID=133

http://www.rmcaudiodirect.com/returns.asp

Legally speaking they've covered their asses and you probably wouldn't win a dime in court.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

For the double boxing you could probably get away with just taping some cardboard sheets to the outside of the original shipping carton. Just enough to conceal the damage.

AND PAY THE F***ING INSURANCE for the return trip!

Gary

 

[MotifX]

One other thing about dealing with RMAs in general. If you approach the vendors with rants and obscenities about how they screwed up they will naturally assume a defensive stance.

It pays to be firm but polite, treat them like a human being and try to approach things from a reasonable angle for all concerned.

If you scream and rave at a CSR you will accomplish nothing but tick the guy off and screw yourself deeper into the hole.

Realistically speaking what exactly did the CSR offer?

No returns whatsoever?

They would RMA the return but the customer would eat the return shipping? If that's their policy it may still be the best option.

They simply washed their hands of the matter and shuttled off the responsibility to Roland warranty support?

EDIT >>> I just looked at their return policy. They offer full store credit toward a replacement. The 10% restocking fee only applies to cash refunds.

Seriously, why don't you just eat the shipping costs and return it on your own nickel for an exact replacement?

If you're nice to the guys you might even get them to eat the return shipping costs.

I think a lot of the reason you're in this mess is because you blew up at the guy and demanded a 100% refund plus return shipping costs.

Sometimes you have to meet people half way.

It's rare that any vendor pays return shipping on an RMA.

As for double boxing, tell them they shipped it to you in a single box and you will return it in the condition they sent it to you.

I really see no reason to bring Roland into this at all.

This whole thing could have been avoided if the OP read their Shipping FAQ and Returns Policies before he laid down his cash and flew off the handle to begin with.

http://www.rmcaudiodirect.com/articles.asp?ID=133

http://www.rmcaudiodirect.com/returns.asp

Legally speaking they've covered their asses and you probably wouldn't win a dime in court.

Gary