Stage Piano or Workstation?

[andyonthepiano]

Hey folks,

I'm looking to replace (or maybe augment) my aging Kawai MP5 and can't decide between another stage piano or a full synth workstation.

I'm looking for something with 73 to 88 weighted keys, but that weighs less than about 15 kg, as I don't want to be lugging a 25kg behemoth up and down my stairs too often.

I've narrowed it down loosely to maybe a Yamaha CK88, or a few alternatives like the Roland RD88 or Studiologic Numa. I would also consider 73 or 76 keys, if I could find one with a decent action, maybe the Yamaha CP73 (which is a lot lighter than the CP88) ?

However I've also been considering a synth workstation such as the Yamaha MODX8+ or a Roland Fantom 08. What attracts me to these is that they seem to be much more versatile. I don't 'play out' very often, due to lack of opportunity, time and talent, and so the option to set up a sequencer or even an arpeggiator to play along to is quite attractive. However, I'm pretty certain that I don't want a full arranger keyboard. I've heard some good reviews and demos on both the MODX and the Fantom, but the MODX probably edges ahead slightly.

AFAIK, the MODX 8 + uses the same keybed as the CK88.

So, my priorities are .

73 to 88 weighted keys. However I'm not an 'action geek' and am not chasing the ultimate action.
Some good voices. I don't need thousands, a few good acoustic pianos, Rhodes and organs, would be enough.
Preferably minimal menu diving.
Weight. Up to about 15kg.
Cost. Not really a concern. I don't really want to spend silly money but wouldn't rule something out because of price though.
The additional features of the workstation are tempting, but I'm not certain how many of them I'd actually use.

I play mostly blues, jazz and rock, but have a guilty secret of wanting to play some 80's Brit synth pop.

Anybody any thoughts ? What are the synth workstations like ? Do they offer more versatility than a stage piano ? I know that its possible to do everything the workstation can do on a laptop with a DAW, but I spend 8 to 10 hrs a day on a laptop for my job, and don't really want to spend my evenings doing the same.

 

[amwilburn]

I mean, if you want built in speakers, RD88 or CK88 would be the way to go (RD88 has one of my favourite piano sounds ever, and now being discontinued you should be able to find a heck of a deal on one).

On the other hand, the Modx8 is incredibly versatile. And also one of my favourite piano sounds. But if you *need* organ drawbars, I'd still lean towards the incredibly light CK88. But man, the Modx8 is just plain incredible (sounding); the navigation isn't as simple as I'd like though (but worth learning). No built in speakers, & no music rest though.

 

[happyrat1]

I own a Numa Compact 2X which I purchased to fill in for a dying Kurzweil PC3K8 workstation.

My experience with the Numa has been positive. It has most of the bread and butter sounds along with a wavetable synth engine that's based on the Waldorf Blofeld.

The negative is that the GM soundset is not represented in the MIDI layout, but it does have 100 editable setups plus another 100 blank user setups for 200 total.

As for durability? Nowadays. I don't trust any of the latest workstations I've seen in shops. The fit and finish looks really plastic and cheap. I really wouldn't trust the newer plastic workstations to a typical roadie.

At least the Numa can do the job and for about a third of the price.

 

[andyonthepiano]

Thanks for your reply Mark.

I don't really need built in speakers and couldn't see me using them much anyway, so they wouldn't be on my list of 'wants' or 'needs'. Neither would be the music stand, as at home I have a large built in music stand sat on a low shelf/ desk behind my MP5.

If I need to play out, I'd just take a regular music stand.

I do find the versatility of the MODX8+ very appealing though, especially using the arp or sequencer to put a simple backing tracking together and the option of building scenes. The UI is a bit intimidating, but I work with computers all day (I'm a very techy engineer), so reckon I'll get the hang of it.

In reality, I can't see any downside, as it seems to offer pretty much everything the stage pianos do, but a lot more beside.

I'd also consider a higher end workstation except for a) the weight and b) I can't see what value they offer above the likes of the MODX.

 

[amwilburn]

I do find the versatility of the MODX8+ very appealing though, especially using the arp or sequencer to put a simple backing tracking together and the option of building scenes. The UI is a bit intimidating, but I work with computers all day (I'm a very techy engineer), so reckon I'll get the hang of it.

In reality, I can't see any downside, as it seems to offer pretty much everything the stage pianos do, but a lot more beside.

I'd also consider a higher end workstation except for a) the weight and b) I can't see what value they offer above the likes of the MODX.

The modx+ is virtually identical (same sound library) as the original Montage, but half the weight and price... at that price point, IMO, nobody offers more than the MODX+. Although I *do* also really like the Nautlius, which has enjoyed a price drop to bring it nearly down to the modx price; modx still wins on portability.

Mark

 

[andyonthepiano]

Thanks HappyRat.

I'd looked at the StudioLogic keyboards. The SL88 and 73 and the various Numas. They look really good, but don't seem to offer the versatility that I'm looking for. However one option I had considered (and haven't ruled out yet), is something like the SL73 to take out and something else to keep at home.

In reality, I don't gig, but do need something that I can take to jam or practice sessions and unfortunately have never had the services of a roadie.

 

[anotherscott]

In reality, I can't see any downside {to a workstation-style board like MODX8+}, as it seems to offer pretty much everything the stage pianos {like CK88} do, but a lot more beside.

Yes, for someone not intimidated by the UI as you say, the former will do just about everything the latter will do (with just an occasional exception here and there), while the latter will do tons of things that can't be done on the former. So for example, the capabilities that come to mind for the CK88 over the MODX8+ are that it has a dedicated organ engine (giving you 9 simultaneously available drawbar sliders, which can be all be used without eating up polyphony), and you can program the top or bottom keys to trigger an audio file on an attached USB stick. OTOH, the list of MODX capabilities missing from the CK are too numerous to list.

There are two main kinds of advantages of the CK approach:

One is in the preparation phase. Setting up your sounds (e.g. splits/layers, effect assignments) is much faster, though there's probably nothing there that can't be done on the MODX+, it just will take some more time to do (and some more initial learning effort), that's the trade-off for how much more flexible it is in these respects. There is also a flip-side to this... once you've set up all your sounds, the process of navigating through your assembled sounds (locating them, re-ordering them, accessing them in real-time during performance) is actually better on the MODX+.

The second is in the performance phase. It is easier to make real-time changes to your sounds (without having to set things up in advance), and you can choose from a wider range of such changes (simply by virtue of the number of controls). Below is a video someone put together for the new Viscount Legend One--not a CK, but it illustrates the concept. Without having set anything up in advance, he makes lots of of real-time adjustments to the sounds. (It's an organ-focussed video, but you can start at about 3 minutes if you want to skip most of the organ-specific stuff.) You can do similar things on the CK. The ability to do things like this on the MODX+ is more limited, because there are far fewer real-time controls available, and to the extent that you can even do these kinds of things, you'd likely have to set up the definable knobs and buttons in advance to be able to do the manipulations you're going to want to do. Again, you can ultimately do more different kinds of manipulations on the MODX+, but most things are not instantly available from the front panel, you'd need to navigate through screens and/or pre-define controls to do the things you want them to do for a particular patch. If you like to freely improvise, not just with the notes you play, but with the characters of the sounds you're using, a board like the CK lends itself better to that.

(One last thing I'll mention about the CK vs MODX+ in particular... the CK actually has some piano and Rhodes sounds that I like better than their equivalent on the MODX. The virtue of being a newer board, I supposed. Though overall, the MODX+ has a far wider range of sounds, plus more that can be downloaded and loaded into it.)

 

[andyonthepiano]

Thanks anotherscott, that makes it very clear.

 

[PSKeys]

How abut a Nord Stage. 88 note weighted. 18kg. There's a v4 out now so the v3 will be available at lower prices, or the v2. I looked at the other options when I bought it a few years ago. It's really versatile and once you realise the keyboard controls are divided into the three sections - Organ, Piano, Synth, (and a 4th section for some of the effects) - it's easy to play around with. But without touching anything the samples are excellent.

 

[andyonthepiano]

How abut a Nord Stage. 88 note weighted. 18kg. There's a v4 out now so the v3 will be available at lower prices, or the v2. I looked at the other options when I bought it a few years ago. It's really versatile and once you realise the keyboard controls are divided into the three sections - Organ, Piano, Synth, (and a 4th section for some of the effects) - it's easy to play around with. But without touching anything the samples are excellent.

Thanks PSkeys,

I know that I said that cost wasn't the main factor, but the Nord is literally twice the price of the Yamaha CP and I don't think that I'll ever be good enough to appreciate the difference.