Sydenham, London - currnetly don't play but want to learn

[Lois Pallister]

Hi, I have signed up to this forum because I have decided that I want to learn to play the keyboard. At this moment in time I am just trying to decide which one to buy to start off with. I want to play blues and honkytonk style and maybe also compose 'folk' type tunes for my own songs. I would quite like to be able to create my own music on the pc using 'other' instruments via the keyboard but my main aim at this stage is to find a keyboard at a reasonable price for a beginner that has a great piano sound and will prepare me to play a piano whenever I get the opportunity.

I am thinking that for this I want a keyboard with fully hammond weighted keys and probably without all the bells and whistles in order to keep the price down until I have learned to play well. Any advice will be gratefully received.

I am a Driving Instructor in London with two organically run allotments and love music and dancing and many crafts including sewing, embroidery, jewellery making and photography. I also love building web sites and have a passion for medieval history.

I would love to be able to compose medieval inspired tunes so would like a keyboard with the right sound for that too.

Look forward to hearing from other members
Lois Pallister

 

[Lois Pallister]

Want to add that I am now reading the info posted by Skipp regarding the question of which keyboard to get. I am sure this will take me a while to digest being a complete beginner and totally unable to play at the moment but I will post further once I've read it.

 

[Lois Pallister]

Ok, I was considering the ProKeys Sono 88 but having read the article by Skipp and a few other messages I have decided to go for the slightly more expensive ProKeys 88.

I don't want to spend too much to begin with and would rather learn to play on a graded hammer-action keyboard. Anyone have any reasons that I should not go for this or want to make any other suggestions? Sorry for the question that probably irritates everyone but I am totally new to all this and could really do with some advice from people with experience.

 

[DickR]

Lois I advice you to have a good look what Casio has to offer these days.
Real good piano's, hammer action full keybed and the lot on the piano's (with extras').
Lot's of extra's including recording etc, but no hammer-action and 'only' 76 keys on the wk 7500. All in all great keyboards or digital piano's for a decent price.
Having said that, I am a Yamaha-fan but are surprised with sound and possibilities on these Casio's.

 

[YeahDoIt]

You might get a keyboard with MIDI connections so you can connect to your computer.

My inexpensive Yamaha keyboard has a grand piano voice that I like a lot.

 

[pianomansjpm]

If your looking for quality action and sound I would recommend Yamaha's S-90. None of the sequencing stuff, but in my opinion yamaha makes one of the finest piano sounds with their "Full Concert Grand". And their graded weighting is amazing. I know Casio makes weighted I wasn't aware that they do graded weighting....

 

[Becky]

Hi there Lois, welcome to the forums

 

[Lois Pallister]

Thanks Becky and thanks for your help everyone. I ended up with a longer shortlist than I had imagined:


M-Audio Prokey 88 (£406)
Yamaha P95 (£475)
Casio Privia PX330 (£600)
Korg SP170S (£429)


So far the only one I have found to try out in any of the local shops is the Yamaha and I LOVE it! I think I've probably ruled out the Prokey 88 now but I am going to a shop near my mothers on Thursday who have both the Yamaha and the Casio.


The Casio spec just seems too good to be true, both for the spec for the money and the light weight (just 11Kg), so I'll probably end up going fo the Yamaha.

The Casio has 17 track recording on board and the Yamaha doesn't but I won't be needing that for quite some time. The only reason I am taking that feature into account is because Frank Statesboro, a musician friend of mine, told me about midi controller latency. I will try the two together but I think I have my heart set on the Yamaha now.

When I am good enough I may well play on stage with Franks band and that is swaying me too. Call me a snob if you like but I think I would probably be thinking "amateur" if I saw someone playin a Casio with a band (hope that hasn't offended anyone).


I just can't wait to start learning now!


For £610 I can get the Yamaha with the L-85 stand and the three pedals. Just the seat to buy afer that and tutors fees of course. But the Casio is £600 with an extra £73 for the stand and pedals.

Any further input will be welcomed from those more in the know than this newbie.


Scary though eh? I began with the Prokeys 88 Sono in mind which was only £200!

 

[Lois Pallister]

Oh, One more point: The Casio has 128 note polyphony, whereas the Yamaha has 64. I doubt I will need more than that if I'm just using it as a piano but as Skipp made a point of it in his info, I thought I'd mention that too.

 

[DickR]

Lois,
You can't offend me or others calling a Casioplayer an amateur, I only have to smile because people saying that don't know much about the excelent keyboards, digital piano's and synths they make AND are used in studio's or on stage by many prof musicians.
If you think 'amateur' when someone plays a Casio and it sounds bad, he/she probably is an amateur and is that also while playing a Yamaha, Korg or Roland. A bad performer doesn't sound as a pro and good on another or more expensive keyboard.
The 'sticker' TOY on Casio's is a vera long past station.
BTW the Higher the polyphony-number in general the better the sound. But 64 is in most cases sufficient. 48 is in my opinion a minimum for a full sound.

To YeahDoit.
No offending amigo but why do you advice to look for midi in/out to a beginner? To do what with?
Just as a sideline.
Nothing against midi/in out and in a studio atmosphere you can't live without it as most equipment still uses it. But it is a bit outdated and a slower connection than an USB - plug and play connection as found on most newer keyboards if you want to connect to a computer. No need for a midi-interface or whatever and most DAW's will work with it without a problem. Even and old program as XGWorks by Yamaha has no problem with it. A simple USB-printer cable will do the job.

Regards
DickR

 

[YeahDoIt]

To YeahDoit.
No offending amigo but why do you advice to look for midi in/out to a beginner?

Because Lois Pallister writes: "I would quite like to be able to create my own music on the pc"

I notice a number of inexpensive USB MIDI cables available on the internet:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Convert...=dp_db_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

[Lois Pallister]

Thanks for that DickR, (I think) LOL
You are right, I can't play yet and though I'm pretty good with computers and pick stuff up very quickly I am not sure what you mean at this moment in time. Do you mean that if the keyboard has a usb plug and play connection I can record the real piano sound on my PC and then convert it to an MP3? Apologies if that is a stupid or hilarious question.

This may well be important to me further down the line and I am looking for a keyboard that will serve me for a long time. I can't spend thousands but I don't want to spend £200 and then have to sell it and get something better within the next year or two either.

I appreciate your comments regarding the Casio label too. I didn't mean that I would think the 'player' an amateur if he or she was good, but I would think of the equipment as cheap and tacky, which is obviously wrong (it's more expensive than the Yamaha I am considering) but I haven't got that sillyness out of my head yet. I wouldn't even opt to buy a Casio calculator. Will have to sort it out.

Anyway, I will play around with them side by side tomorrow and see what I think about them both. I guess it is because of the name, but it just has too many features for the money to me. Or is it just that for value for money for a good piano sound and keys that feel right Casio just can't be beaten at the moment?

Would love an idiots explanation of the usb p&p thing in the meantime if anyone can help.

 

[Lois Pallister]

I just checked and it looks as though the Casio has a (Type B) usb port
http://www.casio.co.uk/products/musical-instruments/privia-digital-pianos/Product/PX-330BKC5/

wheras the Yamaha doesn't seem to have one
http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/mu...nos/p_series/p-95_color_variation/?mode=model

 

[DickR]

Hi Lois,
There are no stupid questions and I don't ment to be pedantic, we all had to start one day and I have been over the years many times very greatful for advice from other people with more knowledge.

Re the USB connector; That's precisely what I mean, an USB-B connection on a keyboard replaces the midi in/out. However, to be able to record music IN MIDI (bear in mind that midi is NOT music but a sort of computer language) on a computer you need sequencing software like Sonar, or Cakewalk or so. With that you can edit your songs in many ways, transpose, change voices,pitch, loudness, add effects etc. When finished you can transfer it into an MP3 or other formats to be able to burn a CD or so.
The same thing, but a bit more work and less easy, you can do on a keyboard if it is an arranger/sequencer type of keyboard.
The cheaper low range keyboards are never that advanced.
But having said this all and with respect, this is a quite complicated proces and at the moment way beyond a beginners level. But as you said you don't want to buy wrong, keep this in mind when making a choice.

Re the Casio, A little story.
I am a Yamaha player for many years and a great fan of the brand and the sounds they produce. Don't perform anymore (retired) and play now only for fun and teach a few people the technique of using a keyboard.
Casio did not ever pop into my mind as a keyboard I would ever touch. As so many people did and some still do thinking Casio is toy-time....
Untill one year ago.
Shortly before they came out with (amongs others) the CTK-7000 (61 keys) and the WK-7500 (76 keys) for the rest they are exactely the same.
I can't simply afford the big Yammies and as the Casio was so cheap for what it offers, and that is a heck of a lot, I wanted to buy the 7500 for teaching purposes.
I had only heard the sound on Yutube demo's what is not fair to any keyboard. On top I had to order it as there is no dealer where I live. Not heard the real sound and never touched it and when it came I did not like it very much in the beginning soundwise.
Also being used to Yamaha's bigger display and operating system I found it not so easy to work with.
But it offers much more than ANY brand in the same pricerange and getting used to adjusting the sounds to my taste and save that in the extensive onboard memory. Now a year later I LOVE IT!
That's all I can say. Sound is of course a personal taste but I was a soundengineer my whole working live and have been in many studio's. If I see how much Casio-stuff is used, say no more. Casio these days toy-time? Bull...

Without doubt there will be people thinking I knock Yamaha NO WAY or I have stocks and shares in Casio... I wished that was true!

Take care and happy keyboard hunting.
DickR

 

[Lois Pallister]

Having played around with them side by side I have decided to go for the Yamaha P95
The reasons are as follows:

I prefer the piano and harpsichord sounds

I prefer the feel of the Yamaha

I am a total beginner and don't want to get sidetracked playing with all the other sounds and backing tracks on the Casio

I do feel happy in my choice now having spent some considerable time over it and having stretched my budget as far as I want to. The shocker is that if I stop smoking I will have saved over the £610 for the P95 with the stand and pedals in just 11 weeks! But I am not going to up my budget again at this stage. However I will stop and after 11 weeks I will put the £8 a day in a box at home to raise more money for doing up my flat.

Sorry to go off subject there a bit.

One more question. I have downloaded the manual and can't see whether I can switch off the response to the keys enabling quieter or louder sounds or whether the harpsichord samples don't respond to the touch on the keys.

Can I ask, on most keyboards, if you want a genuine harpsichord sound do you have to play it very evenly? Or can you switch off the response?

 

[Lois Pallister]

It's ok, I found it in the manual. There is no touch response to the Harpsichord sound

 

[DickR]

Good choice Lois, you will learn to love it. Have great fun discover all it can do. It will take you awhile.

DickR

 

[jpscoey]

There is no touch response to the Harpsichord sound

No 'authentic' harpsichord sound will have touch-response, as a real harpsichord has plucked strings (no variation in touch / volume) .

Just one thing you might check for future reference is the audio output (you mentioned playing with your friends' band).

Some years ago, I bought a Yamaha (I think it was a P-85),

& just assumed it had proper audio outputs..... WRONG ! ! !

It just had a mini-jack headphone output located on the front edge panel.

This is ok for home use, but when in the studio with the band, using external amplification,

it was a nuisance - as it was easily 'knocked', & the sound was always cutting out.

It went back to the store.

If you hadn't done so already, forget about the prokeys - they are terrible.

Nothing wrong with the Casio - heard lots of good things about the latest models.


Good luck with your purchase, tho' - Yamaha make excellent keyboards !

 

[Lois Pallister]

Thanks for the input John. Sorry to hear about your mum. I am in the same boat at the moment, she was diagnosed 3 years ago.

I am aware that the P95 doesn't have the audio output. Since your post I googled to try to find people who have used it on stage and found a few complaints that although it is claimed to be a stage piano it really isn't. But Yamaha don't actually claim it to be a stage piano.

My budget started at a limit of £350 for the keyboard, stand and pedals, the P95 will set me back £610. The Casio is even more expensive. Ideally I would like the Yamaha P155 but my budget can't stretch that far.

I have decided to go back to the shop that I intend to purchase it from and ask to try it with headphones and through an amp. But I think that I have to be realistic here. I have never played before. And to get to the standard where I can play on stage is obviously going to take me time, especially as I want to learn to read music too, which I ditched previously once I could play the clarinet by year when I was much younger.

So I suppose that I will have to be happy that it will be good for a beginner and for home use and deal with the 'stage' scenario once I can play to a good standard.

I feel that the casio will distract me with all of it's extra features and it will cost more. I have no idea how these things hold their value but if I look after it well then maybe in the future I will either change it for a stage model or even keep it for practice at home and invest in something like the P155 as well.

But if I could use it on stage that would be good enough for me. I never intend to earn a living playing on stage and would not be doing it that often (unless I got the bug for it that is).

Do you feel that with those considerations I have made a good choice in the P95 as a beginners keyboard at a lower budget?

 

[Lois Pallister]

John, I went back to the shop today and the two headphone jacks are qarter inch. Maybe they have changed things.