Symphonic metal composition

[TheOpenDoor89]

Hello all,

I'm new to keyboards but I want something that I can compose symphonic metal, classical, film scores, alternative rock style music such as Evanescence and Nightwish.


I want it to have a quality sounding grand piano, strings, brass, drums, guitar, bass, percussion, organ, special effects, synth...basically I need the true sound of a rock band, orchestra and choir to harmonize as one, epic masterpiece.


Some great examples is music from movies like the Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings, but with lyrics.



I'm not sure where to start or what model or brands to look at, but I do know my limitations...


-Nothing over $1,400

-Quality replication of classic and acoustic instruments

-Record/compose features




Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Thanks!

 

[drewwilliamspiano]

Dude, you can read my other posts...I don't work for Roland or anything, but I love my Roland boards. The KR-575 that I bought about 11 years ago had everything that you are asking for, and the sounds are still good today. No kidding...awesome quality samples. In all the right areas, too. The synth mod that I was drooling over at that time was the JV 5080 and it was the flagship synth of that time. There is a good review of it by Walter Afanasieff (producer for Santana, Mariah Carey, Kenny G, etc.). You can get a good one on ebay for around 500. Max it out with some SRX series expansion boards. It has 8 slots. wow. powerhouse. Hook it to a good controller (theyre dirt cheap anymore, and really good mostly) and you are rockin dude. i would totally record and gig with that rig, no worries, no complaints.

Hope this helps.

 

[TheOpenDoor89]

Dude, you can read my other posts...I don't work for Roland or anything, but I love my Roland boards. The KR-575 that I bought about 11 years ago had everything that you are asking for, and the sounds are still good today. No kidding...awesome quality samples. In all the right areas, too. The synth mod that I was drooling over at that time was the JV 5080 and it was the flagship synth of that time. There is a good review of it by Walter Afanasieff (producer for Santana, Mariah Carey, Kenny G, etc.). You can get a good one on ebay for around 500. Max it out with some SRX series expansion boards. It has 8 slots. wow. powerhouse. Hook it to a good controller (theyre dirt cheap anymore, and really good mostly) and you are rockin dude. i would totally record and gig with that rig, no worries, no complaints.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for replying to my post.




I like Roland, but I don't like purchasing used electronics, they always have nothing but problems.


I'm not putting you down or saying all used equipment is like that, I, personally, have just never had good luck with used electronics.



I don't like controllers or soft synths, a keyboard is better because I have better control and I want to learn piano as well.



I also only want to spend so much on it as it's my first.



You've listened to Evanescence and Nightwish, right? I'm only asking because nobody could seem to answer my questions on other forums, they had no idea what symphonic metal was lol.



Thanks again!

 

[TheOpenDoor89]

.

There is a good review of it by Walter Afanasieff (producer for Santana, Mariah Carey, Kenny G, etc.). You can get a good one on ebay for around 500


.

Are you referring to the KR-575 or JV-5080 model??

 

[drewwilliamspiano]

Jv 5080

 

[TheOpenDoor89]

I will check into it.


So there are no new models out there from any manufacturer that will do the things I need done within my price range??? ($1,500 or less)

 

[TheOpenDoor89]

I can't find the JV 5080 online anywhere....all that shows up are XV 5080.

 

[jpscoey]

I'm new to keyboards but I want something that I can compose symphonic metal,
classical, film scores, alternative rock style music such as Evanescence and Nightwish.

I want it to have a quality sounding grand piano, strings, brass, drums, guitar, bass, percussion, organ, special effects, synth...
basically I need the true sound of a rock band, orchestra and choir to harmonize as one, epic masterpiece.

...my limitations...

-Nothing over $1,400
-Quality replication of classic and acoustic instruments
-Record/compose features

You have already said that you don't want to go down the soft-synth route (& I can see why - it's not for everyone),

but if you want TOP QUALITY in all the different sounds you mentioned above,

you are not going to find them in a $ 1,400 keyboard - it's as simple as that, I'm afraid !

You'd have to TRIPLE that, & get maybe a Korg Kronos - the most complete keyboard/workstation on the market at the mo.

Also bear in mind that acoustic instruments like Brass / Guitar etc are never going to sound exactly the same on a keyboard,

because of the expression used by a real player with breathing / plucking / strumming techniques & so-on.

A tall order all-in-all, but if I can offer a crumb of comfort, maybe take a look at Korg M50.

I have an 88-note version, & it does a lot of these things really well...

it is not TOO expensive, is easily editable via the good-sized touch screen,

and IMO Korg synth sounds are second to none.

With the greatest respect to Drew, he is obsessed with Roland gear & doesn't really see past that,

but I have owned several Roland 'boards &, unless your used to them, the menus & sub-menus are completely baffling.

 

[TheOpenDoor89]

You have already said that you don't want to go down the soft-synth route (& I can see why - it's not for everyone),

but if you want TOP QUALITY in all the different sounds you mentioned above,

you are not going to find them in a $ 1,400 keyboard - it's as simple as that, I'm afraid !

You'd have to TRIPLE that, & get maybe a Korg Kronos - the most complete keyboard/workstation on the market at the mo.

Also bear in mind that acoustic instruments like Brass / Guitar etc are never going to sound exactly the same on a keyboard,

because of the expression used by a real player with breathing / plucking / strumming techniques & so-on.

A tall order all-in-all, but if I can offer a crumb of comfort, maybe take a look at Korg M50.

I have an 88-note version, & it does a lot of these things really well...

it is not TOO expensive, is easily editable via the good-sized touch screen,

and IMO Korg synth sounds are second to none.

With the greatest respect to Drew, he is obsessed with Roland gear & doesn't really see past that,

but I have owned several Roland 'boards &, unless your used to them, the menus & sub-menus are completely baffling.

Thank you for replying.


Yeah, I just prefer the feel of actual keys, that way I feel like I have better control and I also enjoy playing the piano so that is another reason.


Hmmm, that's a bummer. The reason I said $1,400 was because I was eyeing the Yamaha MOX6 but I'm not so sure now.



I was looking at the Korg M50, but have heard alot of their models feel like they were built cheaply and that the keybeds were not any good, but then that's just what I have read online by some. I have heard Korg is one of the best around.


I understand about the instrument replication and I am ok with that, I just want it to sound as clean, crisp and clear as possible. I really am passionate about this style of music and I believe this is the best way for me to fulfill that dream.


I really, really like Korg Kronos and I wish it was cheaper is the M50 related to the Kronos, sound and quality wise???



Finally, are there any alternatives that you could suggest just in case I decide against the Korg?



Thank you again!

 

[jpscoey]

... I just prefer the feel of actual keys... and I also enjoy playing the piano so that is another reason.
The reason I said $1,400 was because I was eyeing the Yamaha MOX6.....

The Yamaha MOX6 is an option, but you also mentioned wanting to 'play piano' -

for that , 6 octaves & unweighted keys is far from ideal.

I was looking at the Korg M50,
but have heard alot of their models feel like they were built cheaply and that the keybeds were not any good,
but then that's just what I have read online by some.

If you are talking about the 61 or 73-note versions then yes - they do feel a bit flimsy,

but the 88-note version is solid, with a weighted action that is great to play.

I have heard Korg is one of the best around.

I was going off what type of music you said you wanted to do (symphonic metal).
For that you can't go wrong with the power of Korg's synths / pads.

I really, really like Korg Kronos and I wish it was cheaper is the M50 related to the Kronos, sound and quality wise???

The Kronos is Korg's latest update of the already legendary OASYS.

M50 uses the sound engine that originated in the OASYS, & then the M3.

 

[dethbyoogabooga]

Just to put in my two cents,
I do A LOT of symphonic metal composition and i incorporate a lot of metal into film composition.
If you want to do it right, you're gonna have to go soft synth. Keyboards haven't gotten to the capacity or the flexibility that you can get out of a good PC with software. And I use a CME VX as a controller and talk about having OCD control of my soft synths. I use that board on stage with a mac pro and i have no problems and the quality is so much higher.

But i have to second the Korg M50. The M50 has a very decent set of sounds on it for an 88'er for your price range.

 

[TheOpenDoor89]

The Yamaha MOX6 is an option, but you also mentioned wanting to 'play piano' -

for that , 6 octaves & unwighted keys is far from ideal.


If you are talking about the 61 or 73-note versions then yes - they do feel a bit flimsy,

but the 88-note version is solid, with a weighted action that is great to play.



I was going off what type of music you said you wanted to do (symphonic metal).
For that you can't go wrong with the power of Korg's synths / pads.

The Kronos is Korg's latest update of the already legendary OASYS.

M50 uses the sound engine that originated in the OASYS, & then the M3.

Thank you for your reply.



I feel a bit better about the Korg M50 now. Is it great for composing classical music as well?


Also, would it be "safe" to buy a used M50 or is it just better to buy new?




I know Kraft Music sells bundle packages at awesome prices! I guess I will just have to save up.




Thank you again!

 

[TheOpenDoor89]

Just to put in my two cents,
I do A LOT of symphonic metal composition and i incorporate a lot of metal into film composition.
If you want to do it right, you're gonna have to go soft synth. Keyboards haven't gotten to the capacity or the flexibility that you can get out of a good PC with software. And I use a CME VX as a controller and talk about having OCD control of my soft synths. I use that board on stage with a mac pro and i have no problems and the quality is so much higher.

But i have to second the Korg M50. The M50 has a very decent set of sounds on it for an 88'er for your price range.

Thank you for replying.


That's awesome! I love symphonic metal! I'm aiming for Evanescence/Nightwish/Sonata Arctica/Sirenia/Within Temptation style of music, have you heard of these bands?



I have considered soft synths but i just don't think I could get the same passion and joy out of programming sounds and punching some buttons, that's just not exciting to me. Plus, I have never used that kind of technology, so I am not too comfortable with it at the moment, not saying I could not learn.



Thank you!

 

[jpscoey]

I feel a bit better about the Korg M50 now.....would it be "safe" to buy a used M50 or is it just better to buy new

I'd say it's relatively 'safe' to buy used -

it was brand new on the market less than 3 years ago, so you won't be getting one any older than that.

But if you already had a $1400 budget in mind, you could get a new one (88-note) for just an extra $200 from Sweetwater -

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M50-88/

& you'd have the peace of mind of a guarantee...

(might be worth pushing for an extra year on that, the way the economy is at the mo - any sale to them is gratefully taken !)

As dethbyoogabooga (nice name ! ) said, for the best quality replications of instruments,

soft synths have the edge - but, like you, I prefer the 'hands-on' feel of hardware gear.....

&, especially if you're thinking of gigging, hardware is WAY more reliable.

I've seen & heard countless tales of computers crashing mid-gig & having to go through the time to re-boot thing.

If you're at home / in the studio you can get round that, but a pain in the a** you can do without !

 

[TheOpenDoor89]

I'd say it's relatively 'safe' to buy used -

it was brand new on the market less than 3 years ago, so you won't be getting one any older than that.

But if you already had a $1400 budget in mind, you could get a new one (88-note) for just an extra $200 from Sweetwater -

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M50-88/

& you'd have the peace of mind of a guarantee...

(might be worth pushing for an extra year on that, the way the economy is at the mo - any sale to them is gratefully taken !)

Thanks! I'll see what I can find.



I really want the M50 but it is already way out of my budget, plus I still need monitors/speakers and other accesories



This just figures, ugh.