This is not a question just complaining about cruelty to keyboard players

[shaneffrenchrolandplayer]

I have been working in a particular band for the last 11 months. Its a great gig, Working 5 nights a week give or take, transport is provided along with board and food on gigs further from home, the pay is good and whats more is the music is heavily keyboard based, the keyboard has more function in the band than the guitar which is a refreshing change.

HOWEVER, one thing about the gig bothers me so much. I spend a lot of time programming my patches because there is so many sounds in the gig and the keyboard is such a big part of the mix. I have to balance them quite carefully compared to one another and the rest of the band. However when I get to the gig the engineer ruines it all. He compress the mix way too much. I asked him about it a couple times but he always says the compress is very gentle. I knew it wasn't. When he wasnt looking once I called up my channel on the desk and it was set with a low threshold and the compression was set to almost 4:1 It mushes all my sounds together and takes all the dynamics out of my playing. Its hard to contain my rage with the situation.

 

[delaware dave]

Sounds as though the soundman is running the entire board's output through the compressor so that everyone is being compressed. Perhaps he could you take the input into the compressor from an 'effects send' and exclude the keyboard channel from sending anything out the effects send; this way everything would run through the compressor except the keys.

 

[shaneffrenchrolandplayer]

Unfortunately its my own channel strip

 

[RDGBrian]

I always seem to have a problem playing live also. The sound guys at different clubs almost always like to bury my keys in the house mix. It's so frustrating. I run thru a Carvin kb1015 amp which gives me plenty of onstage volume so I can hear myself. It also has xlr DI's with their own volume, which is nice. But, when reviewing our recording of the gig the next day, it's always a bitter disappointment to discover that the keys are barely audible, for about 90% of my band's set. We almost always record direct off the board. I always talk to the sound guy prior to playing and ask not to do this, but, it still always seems to happen. And it doesn't matter the size of venue or the size/quality of the house sound system. I've played all types of places, small an large. And this problem seems to follow me around.

 

[shaneffrenchrolandplayer]

It extends to some well established venues as well unfortunately. In jan I was in Disney land in the epcot pavilion which I love for its music. I stopped to off kilter shows. A band of which Im familiar with a a good number of their recordings. Their recording have some really really tasty keys parts both soloing and comping. When I got to the gig, keys couldnt be heard at all!!! I was very disappointing whats more is they had the age old problem of the guitar being way too loud. Was really surprised for something like this to happen in disney and to a long established band.

Unfortunately it seems far too common place for engineers to get out the vocal and then fill in the gaps weather or not it is balanced.

 

[delaware dave]

I always seem to have a problem playing live also. The sound guys at different clubs almost always like to bury my keys in the house mix. It's so frustrating. I run thru a Carvin kb1015 amp which gives me plenty of onstage volume so I can hear myself

Having done sound many times I'm guessing that the reason you are buried in the recording mix is because you are louder coming off the stage as compared to others coming off the stage. The sound man is trying to balance the sound coming off the stage with the sound coming out of the mains so that he gets a good house mix. If your KB1015 is pointing at him he will hear that plus the keys in the mains and if you are too loud out front he will turn you down in the main mix so that the keys blend in. Unfortunately because you are recording off the board you will then not that loud in the main board (because he turned you down to get an overall balanced mix). Try not pointing the KB1015 straight out toward the crowd nor at the sound man. You might actually want to put the KB1015 either to the side or slightly in front of you and blow it back toward you. The KB1015 will then not be heard out front and then he would be forced to turn you up in the mains, which will also get your volume up in the recordings off the board.

 

[RDGBrian]

Thanks for the input Dave, I actually do place the kb1015 sitting to the left of me, blowing sideways. It makes a handy surface for my rack.

 

[Wes]

I was about to mention the same thing as Dave. Get somebody in the audience to record you with a cellphone or a tablet PC. Both from the dance floor and the main audience area. Actually, from near the sound man's position, too. I think you will be surprised. Board recordings and room recordings seldom sound the same.

As for recording devices, the Blackberry Playbook has really impressed me with its ability to handle high SPLs and transparent compression algorithm...these clips were recorded the built-in camera and mics --

 

[shaneffrenchrolandplayer]

You video is private it wont play.

 

[Mozartian]

I was about to mention the same thing as Dave. Get somebody in the audience to record you with a cellphone or a tablet PC. Both from the dance floor and the main audience area. Actually, from near the sound man's position, too. I think you will be surprised. Board recordings and room recordings seldom sound the same.

As for recording devices, the Blackberry Playbook has really impressed me with its ability to handle high SPLs and transparent compression algorithm...these clips were recorded the built-in camera and mics --

Can you post a publically accessible video?

 

[Wes]

Sorry 'bout that. Video is fixed now.

 

[Tuomas Easton]

It might not be a feasible option, but if you can you should get onstage in-ear monitors. Reducing stage volume as much as possible forces the engineer to mix mostly off the mains, which would give you a better recorded recreation of your sound (if you still record straight from the board).

 

[goz211]

@OP Sorry to hear about your situation.

You've spoken to the engineer and raised your concerns - and nothing has happened. Unless there's a succession of complaints from the audience - very unlikely - I think you're stuck. Lowering your onstage volume to the point where the band can't hear you is a strategy. If it's keyboard driven music as you say - they'll need to hear you for cues. If they complain to the engineer - the volume may go up out front too.

It may not.

We feel your pain.

Glad to hear they're paying and feeding you well.