Yamaha S80 cuts off second-highest note in chords

[Michael_Seattle]

(Evidently I initially posted this in the wrong forum, so sorry if you saw this before. As an update, I'm on the verge of selling this and buying a Kawai VPC if this turns out to be unsolvable with the S80.)

I noticed a weird problem with my 15 year old Yamaha S80. When I play chords like the one below, it intermittently kills one of the middle notes a moment after it's started sounding. Even weirder, sometimes it sends a second Note On immediately afterwards, other times it doesn't. In the example below the misbehaving note is F3, and below that it's the A3. As far as I can tell, it's never the top or bottom note. At first I thought it was my cheap MIDI-USB interface, but I can't see how the interface would be smart enough to pick out notes from the middle of chords.

Has anyone seen anything like this? It happens intermittently. I'm not holding down the pedal or doing anything I know of that would bring the instrument near its polyphony limits. Besides this, I really love the piano action of this keyboard.

01:18:09.662 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 D1 53
01:18:09.686 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 C3 68
01:18:09.687 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 A3 47
01:18:09.698 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 E3 68
01:18:09.700 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 F3 66
01:18:09.742 From USB MIDI Interface Note Off 1 F3 0
01:18:09.776 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 F3 20

01:40:46.795 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 E3 50
01:40:46.801 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 F1 41
01:40:46.803 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 C4 56
01:40:46.808 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 G3 51
01:40:46.822 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 A3 39
01:40:46.908 From USB MIDI Interface Note Off 1 A3 0
01:40:46.912 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 A3 16

 

[Michael_Seattle]

Here's an example where the unreliable note was the third from the top:

23:20:01.602 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 C#3 68
23:20:01.603 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 A#3 60
23:20:01.609 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 A#1 46
23:20:01.613 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 F#3 66
23:20:01.617 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 F3 76
23:20:01.657 From USB MIDI Interface Note Off 1 F3 0
23:20:01.679 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 F3 30

This particular chord only has the problem intermittently, but when it does, it's the F3. The F3 is reliable when played individually, soft or loud. And in the other example it was the A3 that was flakey. What is going on?


Here's another example, this time C4 (third note from the top of the chord):
23:41:42.616 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 G#3 47
23:41:42.623 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 A#1 42
23:41:42.626 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 C4 86
23:41:42.627 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 C#4 59
23:41:42.629 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 F4 51
23:41:42.662 From USB MIDI Interface Note Off 1 C4 0
23:41:42.689 From USB MIDI Interface Note On 1 C4 24

Firmware bug?

 

[happyrat1]

A couple of thoughts here. It's 15 years old. Have you ever replaced the internal battery? IS there an internal battery?

Does it occur only with certain voices or does it happen no matter which patch you are using?

Have you tried a factory reset on the keyboard?

All of these are likely software/firmware problems.

Only after all of these have been eliminated can we proceed if it's a hardware keyboard fault.

Gary

 

[Michael_Seattle]

A couple of thoughts here. It's 15 years old. Have you ever replaced the internal battery? IS there an internal battery?

Does it occur only with certain voices or does it happen no matter which patch you are using?

Have you tried a factory reset on the keyboard?

All of these are likely software/firmware problems.

Only after all of these have been eliminated can we proceed if it's a hardware keyboard fault.

Gary

Nowadays I'm usually playing on my computer, using a cheap USB-MIDI adapter (which I initially suspected except I can't see how it would care which notes to interfere with). I noticed the problem in Pianoteq, then confirmed it also happened in GarageBand and on the S80's PLG1 piano patch.

I did try a factory reset. From Google I just learned there is an internal lithium battery, so that may be worth checking.

There are no other signs of malfunction.

 

[Michael_Seattle]

Update: I just reproduced the problem with the S80 set to a different patch. I also noticed the heavy keyboard wasn't properly supported in the middle by my stand -- the middle two rubber feet were hanging in the air. I stuck a book underneath but that didn't change anything.

I'm kind of intrigued by whether the internal battery could be the problem. Or is this a bug that no one's noticed before because they haven't done this particular chord exercise over and over?

 

[happyrat1]

Is this problem happening with the S80's internal voices as well or is it a MIDI only problem using the computer's VSTis?

If it's happening with one or more of the internal voices then it has nothing to do with the computer or the interfaces.

Sorry but you didn't make it 100% clear.

And if the battery has never been replaced in 15 years we cannot eliminate it as a possible cause.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

And for the time being, simply for clarity's sake, let's ignore the MIDI interface, disconnect it entirely and see if the problem is reproduceable on one or more S80 voices.

Gary

 

[Michael_Seattle]

Is this problem happening with the S80's internal voices as well or is it a MIDI only problem using the computer's VSTis?

Both.

 

[happyrat1]

Lack of support under the keyboard's middle is also a possible concern. 15 years without a proper support under a 50 to 70 lb keyboard could cause an ever so slight bow in the keybed which could cause some weird key misfires.

Regardless, the battery needs to be replaced and if I recall correctly, the battery in Yamaha's S series is not user replaceable. ie. it is soldered in and not socketed.

It may end up going in for service regardless.

Gary.

 

[happyrat1]

Try removing it from the stand and leaving it on a flat table with full support for a week or so. See if the problem goes away if it's properly supported.

As for the battery, if you take it to a keyboard tech (Doesn't necessarily have to be a yamaha authorized service depot) ask them to install a socket for the replacement battery.

Gary

 

[GondolierRumDrunk]

I'm about 6 years late to this discussion, but was having the exact same problem with internal patches after about 15 years on the road w my S80. I bought it new in 2000. Currently trying to repair and sell it, so I would love to hear if the problem was resolved!