Bottom keyboard recommendations - size is critical

[joden]

So my latest issue, is that the PC4 and the montage cannot fit on the same K&M Pro stand. Montage is too wide...sorta means I need to divest the PC4. The nice combo of them both is not going to work as I cannot access any PC4 controls or buttons under the montage. I also need some top space on the stand for the iPad stand. Further restricting space.

So looking for a narrow bottom board, with or without sounds, to do the job. I am guessing the PX-560 and px-3000 are the obvious first choices, just wondering if there are any other decent options out there? Rolands area bit long, and iirc Yammies are a bit long as well.

Suggest anything, I'm listening

 

[happyrat1]

Instead of swapping out the $2000 board why not swap out the $200 stand instead for something that can hold both?

https://www.amazon.com/Stage-KS7903-3-Tier-Frame-Keyboard/dp/B000G3KNT4/

https://www.amazon.com/Stage-KS7365EJ-Heavy-Duty-Folding-Z-Keyboard/dp/B0002F6JH6/

Gary

 

[anotherscott]

I agree with Gary... if you like the boards, you can solve this with a different stand. I like the K&M 18880 with the 18881 second-tier stacker. It's very light, and sets up and breaks down in seconds. You can flip the top tier arms backward to move the top board further back if you want to keep more of a deep bottom board's controls surface exposed, but if you flip those arms backwards, for stability, you'd may need to put the heavier board on the bottom tier.

If for some reason you're tied to the idea of replacing the PC4 with a shallow slab, when you say, "looking for a narrow bottom board, with or without sounds, to do the job" -- what exactly is the job? Triggering Montage sounds? The two Casios you mention don't make for great MIDI controllers... I'd look instead at their PX-5S. It's a 4-zone controller (you can transmit on up to 4 MIDI channels at once, whichever ones you want split and/or layered however you want, with those settings stored on a patch-by-patch basis). It has other nice controller features like pitch and mod wheels, 5-pin DIN and USB connections, 6 definable sliders, 4 definable knobs. It also has some nice sounds/features of its own, weighs just 24 lbs, and it's quite shallow.

 

[joden]

Already got a Z Stand - And re the 200 stand? it's a 700 stand btw Spider Pro....I am using it for a reason as it is far easier to set up and lug than the Z stand with upper tier. Just a personal thing, I am not really anamoured by "table" style stands.

Apparently the PX-560 is no longer available (dealer advised yesterday)....maybe a controller might do, but very scarce as well due to the chip and other issues going on.

PX-5S is no good, no EXP Jack - already been down that road.

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[anotherscott]

PX-5S is no good, no EXP Jack

Depending again on exactly what the job is, there are probably ways to address that. For example, the pedal shown at https://beatbars.com/en/midi-expression-pedal.html or the MIDI Expression iO offered at https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php

 

[joden]

Thanks, appreciate the thought, but as I wrote, been down that road ...

Look, I CAN get it to work (PC4 and Montage on the Pro) but it means I cannot use the iPad holder as I'd need to lift the top board too high.....hahaha EVERYTHING is a compromise hey - and tbh, even those narrow boards would be an issue the Montage is just so wide!

It would also work if the upper tier angle could be adjusted, but it's fixed.

 

[joden]

PX-S3000 is out.....no MIDI port

 

[anotherscott]

If the idea is to connect it to the Montage to trigger Montage sounds, that also works through USB. The bigger limitation of the PX-S3000 is that it's not multi-zone. This severely limits what you can have it do when you connect it to a Montage. Though you still haven't exactly explained what "the job" you're trying to do is, so maybe it will be sufficient. (I'd also be curious to know why the MIDI Expression iO wouldn't solve the PX-5S expression pedal problem for you... i.e. what you need it to be able to do, that it would not let you do.)

 

[joden]

MIDI in on the PX cannot be "thru'd to the USB Out. So if I wanted to use the expression pedal connected to the PX to control something on the Yammie (need the out for something else) it won't work. And I really don't want more pedals, already got two and the sustain on the Montage

As to what I want to achieve? Essentailly setup all my songs on the Montage and then just control the montage from the bottom board. I was also looking at the A88 mk II, but from what I read it is two zones only as well. And tbh, the price of these controllers, is close to what I can "keep" the PC4 for. It's on a lease at the mo, I can "buy" it for $1700 (aud). Of course I have all my songs set from the PC4 already, but two of my bands only needs me to use the 61 note board, hence the purchase of the Montage to do that job. I was sorta hoping I cold meld the two together though for the bands and jobs that needed the 88 piano haha! Be a great sound palette! Plus the Montage can do those arp things that the PC4 simply cannot, well not without a LOT of programming work, time which I do not have.

 

[anotherscott]

MIDI in on the PX cannot be "thru'd to the USB Out. So if I wanted to use the expression pedal connected to the PX to control something on the Yammie (need the out for something else) it won't work.

Technically, actually I'm pretty sure it IS possible to have MIDI IN thru'd to the USB Out... there are options to turn OUT into THRU... but then it won't send what you're playing on the keys (it doesn't merge Out+Thru) which I think is what you meant by "need the out for something else"), so yeah, you're right, that still wouldn't solve your problem. BUT... I believe the MIDI Expression iO can take MIDI from the PX-5S *and* the MIDI values generated from the expression pedal you plug into the box, and merge both into either its MIDI Out or its USB Out (or both). So that actually would do what you want. There are other ways this could work, too, but that may be the only solution that is just a single device.

And I really don't want more pedals, already got two and the sustain on the Montage

Well, that's another story. If you don't want another pedal, though, then I don't understand why the lack of an expression pedal input on the PX-5S is a problem in the first place. ;-) But if you got the PX-5S and ever decided you wanted that pedal after all, that $150 box should give you the "missing jack."

As to what I want to achieve? Essentailly setup all my songs on the Montage and then just control the montage from the bottom board.

If indeed ALL you want to do is "just control the montage from the bottom board"--specifically, you don't need to be playing other sounds on the Montage while you're playing Montage sounds from your bottom board (or at least no more than one single-Part sound)--then actually any single-zone keyboard can do it. Set the Montage MIDI I/O Mode to Single. Then even the bottom hammer-action Casios (CDP-S100, CDP-S150) should work. It's when you want to have simultaneous access to multiple Parts' worth of sound from the external keys AND a different set of multiple Part's worth of sounds from the Montage's own keys that you need to have some kind of multiple zone capability in your external board.

 

[CowboyNQ]

Instead of swapping out the $2000 board why not swap out the $200 stand instead for something that can hold both?

This seems like a stunningly logical and very cost-effective solution. There would be any number of stands that could fit the bill.

 

[anotherscott]

I think the factors on the other side are that he doesn't actually own or have much investment in the PC4 (it sounds like he can just return it); and as nice as the PC4 is, everything he really needs is already handled adequately by the Montage; and he really likes his current stand.

 

[joden]

This seems like a stunningly logical and very cost-effective solution. There would be any number of stands that could fit the bill.

It is not a $200 stand ( https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SpiderProBK--k-and-m-spider-pro-black in Oz that's $600) not sure where you got that from! And it's a stand that suits how I want to set up live...How this de-generated into a debate over a stand is beyond me???

 

[joden]

I think the factors on the other side are that he doesn't actually own or have much investment in the PC4 (it sounds like he can just return it); and as nice as the PC4 is, everything he really needs is already handled adequately by the Montage; and he really likes his current stand.

The amount of investment is irrelevant! All I was asking for for ideas on other slim keyboards that are around..I mentioned two I thought of, one is no longer available, the PX3000 has no MIDI din...more just seeing if there was somehting I may have missed in searching.

 

[happyrat1]

Considering the responses you've received have been sincere attempts to help you and all you have done so far is narrow down the list to a ridiculously limited number of solutions we really don't appreciate the attitude with which you are responding to us.

Nobody here gets paid for this.

You seem to know MUCH MUCH better than we what you are looking for and asking us for recommendations boils down to having us read the same specs you've been reading so why are you even still asking here?

I, for one, relegated this thread to the ignore bin the second you panned my original suggestion.

So listen Jorden Rudess wannabe, either figure it out for yourself or drop the attitude.

Back to ignoring this thread.

Gary

 

[joden]

Because it ignored the OP, placed YOUR opinion on something totally irrelevant and which was based on an incorrect premise (you had the value all wrong in the first place)....

And there is no attitude at all. Seems the "attitude" is indeed coming from yourself! What because someone doesn't reply sycophantly to the great edict from on high, you get pissed??? You still have not admitted you were wrong in your post, hahaha! I'm quite ok with your ignoring...apart from "attitude" you haven't contibuted anything really.

 

[joden]

It is just "work-shopping" ideas....Yes I read the same specs that everyone else does, but we are all human, we miss things, make mistakes...sometimes a poster will come up with one "gem" that helps crystalise thought. They might have one insightful comment about an aspect not thought about or considered.

It's why I appreciate AS's replies. I feel he is far above petty anoyances about whether or not a post is heeded or ignored. He always has good intel, and is VERY knowledgeable about the range of gear available.

FWIW, apart from the silly comments about what stand is being used, ALL the thoughts so far are being considered and researched

 

[happyrat1]

Because it ignored the OP, placed YOUR opinion on something totally irrelevant and which was based on an incorrect premise (you had the value all wrong in the first place)....

And there is no attitude at all. Seems the "attitude" is indeed coming from yourself! What because someone doesn't reply sycophantly to the great edict from on high, you get pissed??? You still have not admitted you were wrong in your post, hahaha! I'm quite ok with your ignoring...apart from "attitude" you haven't contibuted anything really.

No Jackass. Because my FRIEND made an honest mistake and didn't read thru all the meaningless babble you and Scott have been exchanging and you immediately jumped down MY FRIEND'S throat.

Honestly if you rent your gear why don't you just take whatever's available at the the venue? (Rhetorical question. I don't require any of your smart assed answers.)

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

My Honest BEST advice? Keep on renting until you find something you like enough to buy.

 

[anotherscott]

The amount of investment is irrelevant!

I thought it could have had some relevance because of where you said "And tbh, the price of these controllers, is close to what I can 'keep' the PC4 for."

All I was asking for for ideas on other slim keyboards that are around..I mentioned two I thought of, one is no longer available, the PX3000 has no MIDI din...more just seeing if there was somehting I may have missed in searching.

As I said, the PX-S3000's lack of a DIN MIDI jack doesn't matter, if you only intend to use it to control the Montage. The Montage has the ability to act as a host for an external USB keyboard. So not only would the PX-S3000 work, so would the cheaper models (PX-S1000, CDP-S100/150/350). Same with the Yamaha P-45/P-125 (and P-121 if you want something smaller and are willing to go with 73 keys instead of 88). If you prefer something with 5-pin MIDI, you can also look at the Kawai ES-110.