Casio Privia 160 vs Casio CDP350: are they even for me anyway?

[happyrat1]

This ended up not being a joke!

Yeah the smileys may have thrown you off but Korg manuals are translated from Chinese to Greek, then to Romanian, then to Farsi, Then Swahili, then FINALLY into English Gibberish.

Don't expect a hell of a lot of support from Korg either, but then again Roland and Yamaha all suck when it comes to supporting their products. (But Yamaha sucks the worst of all in the support department)

The only real help you'll find along the way is in support forums like this one.

Gary

 

[anotherscott]

Don't expect a hell of a lot of support from Korg either, but then again Roland and Yamaha all suck when it comes to supporting their products. (But Yamaha sucks the worst of all in the support department)

Actually, I think Yamaha's support is the best of the three, because of their forum at https://yamahasynth.com/forum

 

[happyrat1]

I can only base my opinion on support issues I had over a decade ago with Yamaha concerning operating system difficulties.

All I could get from their reps was scripted garbage about how it was their way or the highway.

They made ZERO effort to offer any workarounds or even sympathy of any kind.

I SPIT on Yamaha's support robots

What do you expect from a company that makes snowmobiles and chainsaws and musical instruments as a sideline?

Gary

 

[Biggles]

Yeah the smileys may have thrown you off but Korg manuals are translated from Chinese to Greek, then to Romanian, then to Farsi, Then Swahili, then FINALLY into English Gibberish.

Don't expect a hell of a lot of support from Korg either, but then again Roland and Yamaha all suck when it comes to supporting their products. (But Yamaha sucks the worst of all in the support department)

The only real help you'll find along the way is in support forums like this one.

Gary

Actually Gary, Korg support does not suck in my experience.

Korg staff are readily accessible via social media and local events, in fact the Korg Sales Manager gave me one to one tuition for over an hour when I bought my first Korg, bet none of you Yamaha or Roland owners received that degree of customer service.

Email support for me has been very good, I had a query about additional Programs being released which they answered in that they were developing them and would release them in due course and the support staff concerned emailed me many months later to say that an update was now available.

I had another query and that to was answered rapidly.

Korg UK put on live webinars of a mass of different subjects and questions are answered live online, again do Yamaha and Roland offer this degree of service?

Manuals written by Korg Japan suck, those written by Korg Italy are very good.

Yeah I do agree that this forum is great but so to is the Korg forum apart from a couple of wise ass dicks who just happen to be the most technically gifted.

 

[happyrat1]

Korg ain't perfect either. Software support for legacy products like the three year old Minilogue is dropped like a hot potato the second the product stops active production.

Kurzweil still supports boards they produced twenty years ago. Best support in the industry IMHO.

By comparison pretty much everyone else sucks donkey droppings.

Gary

 

[Aaron Houts]

Just a reminder to watch the manufacturers own video tutorials for the keyboards as many times as you can before Saturday.

O/Ding on the tutorials will stand you in good stead for your hands on sessions on Saturday.

Good luck.

Thank you again for such a great suggestion. Going to the tutorials from the manufacturers really helped.

I didn't like the interface of the Yamaha MX88 for practical reasons. The screen was too small. I completely ruled it out because of that. I also didn't like the aesthetic look of the Yamaha either, but the interface alone was enough for me to take it out of the running.

I also thought about the Casio Privia 360 again. Now that I understand a little better about mixing sounds, I know that I want more than a digital piano so the Privia's out as well.

Both the Korg Kross 2 and the Roland Juno have quality interfaces that I could work with.

The controls of the Juno seemed more intuitive to me personally.

Another really nice feature of the Juno DS is left and right hand sliders to control the individual volumes of splits. Makes it easy to set the levels directly from the keyboard.

Gary

I really REALLY liked the sliders.

To switch from sound to sound, Roland uses buttons where the Korg uses a selector wheel. I prefer the buttons of the Roland.

I saw how the split function works and it made sense to me. The instructions to change the split point made sense as well.

I also like the aesthetic look of the Roland the best.

I also liked Roland's tutorials and manual.

I'm still really preferring the Juno, but now I have a list of specific reasons why and specific features I like about it.

It's up to how it feels to play it and how it looks in person at this point. It seems to get good reviews for feel, but I'll find out Saturday.

 

[CowboyNQ]

I have to admit that this is pretty intimidating from the point of view of someone that had no knowledge of keyboards.

Don't get put off by the manuals. They're necessarily detailed due to the wonderful feature-rich nature of modern digital keyboards.

They are great for doing a bit of research on what's possible/not possible but I wouldn't become overly concerned if you can't remember every last detail of them - that's why they exist in the first place. They're a reference guide, not a book of rules to live by.

Whichever 'board you end up buying, if you spend lots of quality time with it and refer to the manuals, on line tutorials and various fora for help when you need it, you'll pick up its "operating rhythm" pretty quickly and navigation will become second nature - I promise.

As far as ongoing support goes - the internet has brought a new dawn of informational richness. A good blend of tenacity and curiosity will see you right, no matter which manufacturer you go with. This thread suggests to me you have both in significant measure.

Good luck!

 

[Biggles]

The menu system on both the Juno and Kross are archaic, there is no other way to describe them, my other keyboard is an Arranger and the large touch sensitive screen make navigating very quick and easy.

Do have a look at all keyboards that they have in store. In particular look at a Roland FA8 and a Korg Krome and others in this price bracket, they are a step up in quality and may serve you much better in the long term.

Whilst you are still researching do include hunting for reliability issues of each keyboard that you are interested in.

You have a problem with your Bass guitar you swap the string or swap to your backup, or plug into another amp, have a problem on stage with the keyboard and it is another matter.

I have no idea about reliability issues with any of the keyboards mentioned so far but it needs considering.

You will need a contingency plan either way for on stage setbacks

 

[Aaron Houts]

As far as ongoing support goes - the internet has brought a new dawn of informational richness. A good blend of tenacity and curiosity will see you right, no matter which manufacturer you go with. This thread suggests to me you have both in significant measure.

Good luck!

Thank you so much!
I feel like I'm getting closer.
Online forums like this one are invaluable. I've learned to trust the end users like yourselves more than anything else and I very much appreciate the help. This site is a really great one. Somewhere I saw it described as "energetic and friendly." I have not been disappointed!
I am a member of a site called "TalkBass" and it has been invaluable in finding the right bass gear. Plus, I've made some cool internet friends along the way!

The menu system on both the Juno and Kross are archaic, there is no other way to describe them, my other keyboard is an Arranger and the large touch sensitive screen make navigating very quick and easy.

Do have a look at all keyboards that they have in store. In particular look at a Roland FA8 and a Korg Krome and others in this price bracket, they are a step up in quality and may serve you much better in the long term.

Whilst you are still researching do include hunting for reliability issues of each keyboard that you are interested in.

You have a problem with your Bass guitar you swap the string or swap to your backup, or plug into another amp, have a problem on stage with the keyboard and it is another matter.

I have no idea about reliability issues with any of the keyboards mentioned so far but it needs considering.

You will need a contingency plan either way for on stage setbacks

I will look into them for sure just to get an idea of what the "next level" might be.

As of now, though, making the step up up to the Juno and the Kross is a stretch for me. I've doubled the budget and this is where I'll probably have to stop. Even funding this level of a purchase is going to take some time and financial maneuvering for our household. Remember, I was initially planning on a Casio PX 160 or CDP350. Plus I have to get a stand and case at the same time. That's going to add to the overall initial investment as well.

I get it about contingency plans. I was planning to buy a backup bass. Now I'm getting a keyboard instead. Contingency plans will have to be a project for another year...Luckily, I'm not booked for Madison Square Garden any time soon.

 

[happyrat1]

When it comes to a stand I recommend the Onstage KS7350 Z Stand.

Amazon.com: On-Stage KS7350 Pro Heavy-Duty Folding-Z Keyboard Stand: Musical Instruments

Buy On-Stage KS7350 Pro Heavy-Duty Folding-Z Keyboard Stand: Stands - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Or if you plan on getting a second board in the future and adding a second tier you can save a few bucks up front by buying the two tier model. The KS7365EJ.

Amazon.com

Personally I own two of these.

If you want to know what's wrong with cheapo X-Stands watch this video.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

For a gig bag, if you're not flying with it then I suggest the Gator GK-88 SLXL which is a decent padded bag that fits snugly.

https://www.amazon.com/Gator-Lightweight-Keyboards-GK-88-SLXL/dp/B01N4MN0C0/

And if you need a TSA approved case for flying then the GTSA-KEY88SLXL which is the same interior dimensions in a molded polyethylene case.

https://www.amazon.com/Gator-Keyboards-Approved-Recessed-GTSA-KEY88SLXL/dp/B01DA8OLQC/

I own one of each. I use the molded case for transporting my Kurzeil and the Gig bag for the Juno DS88.

With the gig bag my Juno weighs about 50 lbs. all packed up and ready to go.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

And one final note. Unless you plan on tearing everything down and storing it in a case when not in use you'll need a decent dustcover for yours.

I get all of my dustcovers from this guy in Illinois. Makes them custom to order and has really quick turnaround.

LeCover | AMP Covers | Studio Covers | Official Site

Selection of amp covers, custom amp covers and stuido covers

lecover.com

He uses top quality plastic backed rubberized ripstop nylon for the covers and they look really good and do a proper job of keeping out dust and spills.

BTW, dust is one of the greatest natural enemies of the modern electronic keyboard. It gets sucked into the keyswitches and causes all sorts of problems. Try and avoid dusty venues at all costs.

Gary

 

[anotherscott]

Do have a look at all keyboards that they have in store. In particular look at a Roland FA8 and a Korg Krome and others in this price bracket, they are a step up in quality and may serve you much better in the long term.

I know those are out of the price range that was already a stretch, but regardless, neither of those are as good as the DS88 for what seem to be key issues at hand, i.e. seamless switching or independent management of the right hand sound while continuing to play the left. The step-up models I'd look at would be the Kurzweil SP6 and Casio PX560, both offering much lighter weight than the Juno. Casio's advantages include more modern touchscreen interface and possibly better feeling action, while Kurzweil is probably the best sounding of the bunch, at least in terms of the sounds the OP is looking for. Kurzweil is also more adept at handling 3 and 4 ways splits (all are pretty straightforward for 2 way splits), has a lot more effects capabilities, and even has a decent manual. Worth keeping in mind in case you come across a demo or used model that brings it into an acceptable price range.

As for a stand, with travel weight an issue, aluminum stands are the lightest, but tend to be pricey. K&M 18880 is a favorite of mine. At a lower price Strukture makes an aluminum X-stand that is double-braced so pretty good as x-stands go.

 

[happyrat1]

I swear by Z stands. No matter how well designed an X Stand is they all rely on a single load point which if it fails ends up dumping your expensive rig on the floor. They also have a tendency to bounce and jiggle when playing hard and the higher up you have to adjust them the less support they give to your keyboard.

The Onstage Z Stand I listed has a rated capacity of 350 lbs, does not wobble or bounce no matter how hard you hit it and if an extra 10 lbs of weight is too much then you have bigger problems to deal with.

Gary

 

[Aaron Houts]

When it comes to a stand I recommend the Onstage KS7350 Z Stand.

Amazon.com: On-Stage KS7350 Pro Heavy-Duty Folding-Z Keyboard Stand: Musical Instruments

Buy On-Stage KS7350 Pro Heavy-Duty Folding-Z Keyboard Stand: Stands - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Or if you plan on getting a second board in the future and adding a second tier you can save a few bucks up front by buying the two tier model. The KS7365EJ.

Amazon.com

Personally I own two of these.

If you want to know what's wrong with cheapo X-Stands watch this video.

Gary

Ha!
Perfect!
That's the exact brand and model I had come up with. It should work for standing as well as sitting if I read the specs right. Is that correct?

I swear by Z stands. No matter how well designed an X Stand is they all rely on a single load point which if it fails ends up dumping your expensive rig on the floor. They also have a tendency to bounce and jiggle when playing hard and the higher up you have to adjust them the less support they give to your keyboard.

The Onstage Z Stand I listed has a rated capacity of 350 lbs, does not wobble or bounce no matter how hard you hit it and if an extra 10 lbs of weight is too much then you have bigger problems to deal with.

Gary

The video with the stand fails was painful to watch.
I had ruled out X stands because the physics didn't line up for me. At standing height, the tow bars were only 11" apart for most of them. It didn't make sense to me to try and balance a 5' keyboard on essentially a one foot platform.
I'm glad I was on the right track!

I know those are out of the price range that was already a stretch, but regardless, neither of those are as good as the DS88 for what seem to be key issues at hand, i.e. seamless switching or independent management of the right hand sound while continuing to play the left. The step-up models I'd look at would be the Kurzweil SP6 and Casio PX560, both offering much lighter weight than the Juno. Casio's advantages include more modern touchscreen interface and possibly better feeling action, while Kurzweil is probably the best sounding of the bunch, at least in terms of the sounds the OP is looking for. Kurzweil is also more adept at handling 3 and 4 ways splits (all are pretty straightforward for 2 way splits), has a lot more effects capabilities, and even has a decent manual. Worth keeping in mind in case you come across a demo or used model that brings it into an acceptable price range.

Got it!
I'll do it. They are substantially lighter. Now I find myself hesitant about anything that looks like a digital piano though. Too funny!
I'm still really liking the Juno, but I'll keep an eye out for deals on those.

For a gig bag, if you're not flying with it then I suggest the Gator GK-88 SLXL which is a decent padded bag that fits snugly.

https://www.amazon.com/Gator-Lightweight-Keyboards-GK-88-SLXL/dp/B01N4MN0C0/

And if you need a TSA approved case for flying then the GTSA-KEY88SLXL which is the same interior dimensions in a molded polyethylene case.

https://www.amazon.com/Gator-Keyboards-Approved-Recessed-GTSA-KEY88SLXL/dp/B01DA8OLQC/

I own one of each. I use the molded case for transporting my Kurzeil and the Gig bag for the Juno DS88.

With the gig bag my Juno weighs about 50 lbs. all packed up and ready to go.

Gary

Perfect!
I had found those as well. I was looking at the Gator to start and had found that model.
I was trying to decide between that one and the Gator without wheels which is lighter in the event that I have to lift it and/or carry it. Do you use the wheels a lot?
Also, the slim extra long 88 note is a better fit than the regular 88 note?
Also, it lists the weight on the wheeled Gator cases as 28 pounds. Is that just the shipping weight?
Otherwise, you'd be looking at 64 pounds as opposed to 50.

 

[happyrat1]

You need the XL models. The Juno fits it perfectly. I believe the regular slim model would be too short. The joystick is at the end of the keys instead of up and to the left so it adds 4" to the length of the board.

It comes with a sturdy shoulder strap so you really won't even need the wheels.

50 lbs on the shoulder, while awkward to maneuver, is an appreciable amount of weight but really no more than carrying 4 or 5 bags of groceries in from the car.

I highly recommend the dustcover for when you're set up to practice at home or in the studio. Dust is lethal for keyboard contacts and at a bar gig if your gear is unattended on stage it reduces the risk of some moron spilling his drink on your keys.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

I use the padded gig bag. Not the hard case for the Juno. That one's only about 15 or 20 lbs.

EDIT >>> I just checked. The gig bag has no wheels. It's the TSA case I own that has wheels. That one weighs in over 85 lbs when I load it up with my Kurzweil. On that one I definitely use the wheels.

Gator may have altered the design re. wheels since I purchased mine 2 1/2 years ago.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

This is the Gator Bag I have for my Juno DS88.

https://www.amazon.com/Gator-Keyboard-Design-GKB-88-SLXL/dp/B005OUK6NC

Don't let the picture fool you. That's not what it actually looks like. It's longer and narrower.

It's a perfect fit for the Juno DS88.

Gary

 

[Aaron Houts]

I use the padded gig bag. Not the hard case for the Juno. That one's only about 15 or 20 lbs.

EDIT >>> I just checked. The gig bag has no wheels. It's the TSA case I own that has wheels. That one weighs in over 85 lbs when I load it up with my Kurzweil. On that one I definitely use the wheels.

Gator may have altered the design re. wheels since I purchased mine 2 1/2 years ago.

Gary

Okay!
Gotcha!
That's the one I found as well. MF just didn't have that size.

They only list the

Slim 88 key size 54 x 15 x 6 which is too short

and the

normal 88 key size 57.5 x 18 x 6.25 which could work.

The XLSL size you list is 59 x 15 x 6.

I can see where the XLSL is tighter around the width.

There's no problem with the extra length of the case?

I'll definitely check out the covers as well.

Thank you for your help with the stand, case and cover as well. It was really a challenge also, but apparently I was on the right track.

I seem to have actually picked out your rig!

Oh-the reviews say the Gator doesn't have a should strap anymore. Is that a dealbreaker?
I'm not too worried about it, but let me know if I should be.

I know those are out of the price range that was already a stretch, but regardless, neither of those are as good as the DS88 for what seem to be key issues at hand, i.e. seamless switching or independent management of the right hand sound while continuing to play the left. The step-up models I'd look at would be the Kurzweil SP6 and Casio PX560, both offering much lighter weight than the Juno. Casio's advantages include more modern touchscreen interface and possibly better feeling action, while Kurzweil is probably the best sounding of the bunch, at least in terms of the sounds the OP is looking for. Kurzweil is also more adept at handling 3 and 4 ways splits (all are pretty straightforward for 2 way splits), has a lot more effects capabilities, and even has a decent manual. Worth keeping in mind in case you come across a demo or used model that brings it into an acceptable price range.

Okay, back to this and another question about terminology:
the Casio Privia 160
CDP-350
Casio PX360
Casio PX560 and
Kurzweil SP6
would all be considered digital pianos.
The
Korg Kross 2
Roland Juno
Yamaha MX
would all be called "synthesizers?"
Do I have that right?
The Numa 2 is a digital piano, but the 2X is a synthesizer?

 

[happyrat1]

I bought the XLSL and it's a pretty snug fit. It includes a couple of foam spacers that provide extra protection at the ends. I can't say it's a dealbreaker but I'd really miss the shoulder strap if mine didn't have one.

Gary