Creating A Two-Keyboard MIDI Setup

[Brett]

Nord Stage-MO6-MoPho & Firebox - Midi Setup

Hi Kanthos,

Going back to this post (I printed it off as a guide for my midi setup), I now have included the Yamaha MO6 in my midi setup. Worked fine. I then included my Dave Smith MoPho synth in the setup. Still working fine.
However, when I tried to connect the whole lot to my PC through the Presonus Firebox I ran into problems.

The midi connections are as follows:
Firebox Midi Out -> Mo6 Midi In
MO6 Midi out -> MoPho Midi In
MoPho Midi Out -> Nord Stage Midi In (Note : MoPho Midi out acts as Midi Thru)
Nord Stage Midi Out -> Firebox Midi In

When I include the Firebox into the setup the Midi connection breaks. I cannot communicate between my PC and the synths. What baffles me is that I can still communicate between the synths though.

For instance, when using John Melas' Total Librarian for the MO6, in the Midi setup I can select the Presonus Midi In and Midi Out but cannot transmit patches from my PC to the MO6, nor the other way around. This however works fine when I use the USB connection between the MO6 and my PC.

Any thoughts on what I'm missing here ?

Thanks,

BRETT

 

[kanthos]

I don't recommend the setup you have for working with a computer, but first, I'll give you some suggestions for your problem.

First off, does the Stage act as MIDI Thru? I'm not sure that it does; I searched for Thru in the manual and couldn't find anything. If so, that's a problem: the Stage is absorbing anything that would otherwise go to the computer. That would explain why the MO6 can't send to the computer, but not the other way around.

Assuming that the Presonus is configured correctly and isn't defective, and that none of the MIDI cables are, I'd start by seeing if things work without a loop (MO6 <-> Firebox). You could also try using some other program (the Firebox comes with Cubase 4 LE, right?) to rule out any software issues with the editor.

I'd tell you to check your MIDI channels (which, given that you say you've used this setup live, you probably did anyway), but that might not matter for the editor anyway.



Are you wanting to use your keyboard rig to record audio on your laptop, or is it just that you had your setup and wanted to connect the Firebox to it to make it easier to edit the MO6 without disconnecting things?

I'd suggest you take a different route with this. With 3 keyboards, you could get a 4x4 MIDI interface (something like the M-Audio Midisport 4x4) and send MIDI in and out of your computer independently for each keyboard. No keyboard would connect to each other; each would connect only to the MIDI interface. Alternately, you could get a 2x2 interface and use the MIDI on your Firebox for the third, but if you added even one more keyboard to your setup, you'd need a new interface, so going to the 4x4 right away is worth it if you think you might pick up some other synth at some point.

For recording, you should set each keyboard to Local Off or equivalent, which means the keyboards won't generate sound from keyboard presses (but they *will* still generate MIDI, which you can record in your DAW and send back to the keyboards in order to produce the audio).

For anything using MIDI devices, the 4x4 device should give you 4 input devices and 4 output devices, so you should be able to select just one and use that.

 

[Brett]

Many thanks for the quick reply.
I haven't found anything in the Stage's manual that indicates that the NS Midi Out could act as Midi Thru. So you're probably correct this seems to be the issue.

As per your suggestion, I will try a direct connection between the MO6 and the Firbox only, see whether there's something wrong with the Presonus Midi Port. It looks a little weird as the same port serves for both Midi and SPDIF (when you plug in a breakout cable). Anyways, I'm using Cubase Studio 4 so I'll test the midi connection here as well.
Midi cables are ok as they work fine in my live setup.

Now as to the purpose of these additional hassles, I'd like to include my PC in my Midi setup in order to:

1. Record any of my 3 synths into Cubase Studio 4; and
2. Use the PC to program the MO6 (via Studio Connection and John Melas' Librarian) and the MoPho (via a dedicated editor). I just can't fathom why anyone would enjoy fiddling with the MO6 controls and tiny screen whereas a perfectly good software running on a big screen can do the job.

Now, one could argue that I should use the USB connection from the MO6 to the PC to do the programming. This is what I did so far and it works fine. However, once you use the USB mode in the MO's Utility, you disconnect the Midi mode (it is one or the other), so you loose the Midi connection between the PC and the synths other than the MO6 (the MoPho and Stage don't have a Midi/USB connection).

I think that your recommendation re the Midi interface is great for both purposes (recording and programming). I checked out the Midisport and MOTU Midi Express and will probably go for either of them. I'm just wondering if these interfaces work without a computer ? I mean, they are powered via USB, so I assume I can't use them in my live setup if I don't have a laptop up and running ?

 

[kanthos]

The fact that the Firebox has both S-PDIF and MIDI on the same breakout cable doesn't matter; they've surely designed it to allow either or both types of data to be transmitted/received at the same time.

I know there are larger MIDI patchbays that exist that aren't powered by USB - things that pro keyboard players would use to connect their 7 keyboards in ways that make sense. I have no idea where to get them.

What I was suggesting though is that you use the MIDI interface at home, and use the direct connection between keyboards at a gig. You can use the same MIDI channels in either case; the only difference is that in the computer case, the MIDI needs to be redirected within the software, and in the live case, the MIDI is directed to the right keyboards because of the way the keyboards are connected.

 

[jkennebeck]

great post, new question

I have 2 midi keyboards (Korg Triton EX88 and Alesis 6.1).

I want to try to set these 2 up as kind of a "dual manual" organ set up.
I'm not sure how exactly to set up the MIDI part of this. What I want to be able to do is use the top manual (the Alesis) as an "upper register" of the patch i'm playing on the korg with the left hand. Is it possible to use the alesis as just a midi trigger?

thanks in advance for any help on this. i've only ever used MIDI to hook a single keyboard up to a computer so this is new to me.

joe

 

[Minorkey]

About 10 years ago I had two keyboards linked via MIDI, my current PSR 225 and a Korg Poly 800. I made a few songs with it using Cubase on my then Atari ST. I cant remember the exact setup but I know on one song I used the korg's sequencer to play a piano line on the Yamaha,and then played along to it on said Yamaha with a different voice,then recorded onto the PC via the mic input,great fun!

 

[Joel]

Hey guys,

you might have asnwered the following question before, but I'd really appreciate your help with something im struggling with at the moment.

Ive got Yamaha Motif ES Rack, Axiom Pro Midi controller, Alesis Micron synth and a Nord Electro 3 HP.

I want to use the piano sample from the nord and the pads from my motif. Whats the best way to go about this. I know you could run them separate through two channels, is there any other options?