CTX vs WK vs Yamaha PSR

[Biggles]

Why buy one hat when you can Steampunk three?

 

[happyrat1]

Three heads may be better than one, but not when you only have one neck.

Nice collection Col.

I had no idea you were into steampunk.

Frankly I was reading Michael Moorcock decades before anyone coined the term.

Gary

 

[Miker62]

Yes, and Casio runs a very nice forum that I've used a number of times to get the answers for any problems or issues i've had. There are at least 2 Casio reps who monitor the forum whom I've used to help me through firm ware updates and issues I had with the expression pedal (the CT-X3000 and the 700 do not have provisions for an expression pedal). If you are looking to have at least 76 keys, the only Casio on your list to meet that is the WK-7600. The 3000 and the 5000 are both 61 keys, and as I pointed out, the keys are not weighted(more like a synth). The Casios have touch sensitivity (which can be set to match the way you play) but no aftertouch. The programmability of the rhythms, the voices and the effects is awesome and finding and following the menus can be daunting. I've had my 5000 for almost 2 years now and I've still never gotten very deep into the programming. Midi implementation is through USB and I've never had any problems connecting with either Ableton Live or FL Studios on an old computer running Windows 7. However, my new computer is running Windows 10 Pro and so far so good. The 5000 has all the bells and whistles but you sacrifice battery operation, it does require a wall-wart and AC, but the speakers are loud enough that you might not need an amplifier to play small gigs. All in all, Casio has come a long way from the "toys" they were known for and for the price, you would be hard pressed to find any other keyboard with as many features, but it's the sound quality that has been improved the most. I hope you get to try before you buy. That is the only way that you will determine if it's the unit for you. Good Luck.

Mike

 

[happyrat1]

One other CRUCIAL thing about Casio's WK line compared to the CTX line is that they lack proper MIDI ports on the CTX.

I immediately stopped being a Casio fanboy when they dropped the professional features from the CTX line.

Casio is a funny sort of company. Back in the 80's they made professional gear. Then they concentrated on consumer junk in the 90's and early 00's. Then they started producing semi professional gear again in the early teens.

And now they look like they are dropping the pros and going into the consumer junk market again.

I guess they don't want to deal with all the competition. (Cluck! cluck! cluck!)

So nowadays I don't recommend any consumer gear anymore. Not even the entry level stuff from Yamaha or Korg or Roland.

My philosophy is that if you are serious about learning a keyboard these days, you START with a Korg Kross or a Roland Juno DS. These are boards that won't make you throw up in 5 years.

If you are looking to buy a musical toy, I don't give toy recommendations other than one of these.

And THIS is ACTUALLY a SERIOUS RECOMMENDATION.

Best $30 I've spent in years. 0 ms latency

Peace

Gary

 

[ClassicalMan]

Hahaa, love melodicas -- the more serious 37s and Hammonds -- have a bass one too ;-]

 

[happyrat1]

Hahaa, love melodicas -- the more serious 37s and Hammonds -- have a bass one too ;-]

What's not to love? Zero boot time, zero latency and the power supply won't quit til ya stop breathing.

I always pack mine along for a trip.

BTW, mine is made in China, cost $30 and according to my concert tuner is perfectly pitched

The only danger is an asthma attack trying to blow a 7th chord

Gary

 

[Miker62]

I agree with you on some of what you stated. I have both Korg and Yamaha keys in my studio rig. They are excellent for their sound quality and feel of construction. I use them quite extensively while recording. I don't believe you are that familiar with the newer Casios. For instance, you stated: "One other CRUCIAL thing about Casio's WK line compared to the CTX line is that they lack proper MIDI ports on the CTX" that is in error. I am assuming that you are referring to the older 5 pin DIN ins, outs and throughs as the "proper" MIDI ports. The WK series does not have these midi connections, but instead uses USB just like the CT-X series and USB midi is becoming the favored midi connection on most of the newer keyboards available. I used 2 keyboards and a sound module connected together via DIN MIDI ports in my performance rig years ago and I find it frustrating at times to try to connect my older keys to my newer keys via midi with the DINs on some and USB on others. I don't fully understand why the change, but USB does make it easier to connect to computers. I agree that the keyboards you mentioned have a great many positives and features that make them excellent keys, but they also cost a great deal more than the Casios. The Casios are budget minded keyboards that are lighter due to the plastic body and they do lack that "quality" feel that comes with metal cased units and better keybeds, however heavier construction and higher prices do not necessarily translate into better sound quality and isn't what they SOUND like the most important feature? You should listen to the CT-X line for yourself before you condemn them.

 

[ClassicalMan]

BTW, mine is made in China, cost $30 and according to my concert tuner is perfectly pitched

Well YOU are the lucky one, because in my considerable experience the fun cheap ones are virtually never in tune. Frequent discussions on that problem in melo circles.

 

[happyrat1]

5 pin DIN MIDI ports are NOT OBSOLETE NOR ARE THEY GOING AWAY SOON.

The truth is that Casio saves about $6 a unit and that adds up to serious money with the kind of mass produced consumer junk they are selling today. ROM is cheap. They can cram in gigs of samples for peanuts and OF COURSE it will sound good.

But connectors cost money. You get what you pay for.

Why is it that on the local craigslist I can find hundreds of these Casio tablehooters selling for less than a carton of smokes, while the cheapest Rolands and Korgs are still selling for 5 times the price?

Because dilletantes buy them for their kids and they end up in the garage sale a year later.

The main and only real distinction between a cheap board and a good one is how much connectivity it has. That and the build quality.

Pedal inputs, audio inputs and outputs, CV inputs and outputs, MIDI inputs and outputs, and USB, always more is better.

Have some coffee and wake up and take a really good look at the used market to see what gear holds up in price and what you sell for beer money.



L8r...

Gary

 

[ClassicalMan]

I agree with you on some of what you stated. I have both Korg and Yamaha keys in my studio rig. They are excellent for their sound quality and feel of

I really prefer the 'traditional' midi connections and will be interested to see if ppl agree with your implication that Casios sound as good as other brands, all things being equal. To me it all sounds about the same with the brands you've mentioned here -- I regrettably have no personal knowledge of Nord, Arturia, Dexibell or whatever. Played a new 88-key Roland that did nothing for me about 8-10 years ago.

 

[happyrat1]

Well YOU are the lucky one, because in my considerable experience the fun cheap ones are virtually never in tune. Frequent discussions on that problem in melo circles.

All I'm saying is that it pays to read the Amazon reviews and not always buy the cheapest one listed before you pull the trigger.

Gary

 

[ClassicalMan]

You simply lucked out. I suspect if you bought 3 others of the same exact model there'd be big differences. People even complain of lousy tuning (and no recourse) on some $500 Hammonds.

 

[happyrat1]

God takes the good ones first. The devil watches after his own

Gary

 

[Biggles]

Gary wrote
START with a Korg Kross or a Roland Juno DS. These are boards that won't make you throw up in 5 years.

Col replied
I threw up with the Kross after 2 years.

A Cr4p LCD panel and 18 pages to scroll through for each layer was crass. Sound cutoff when changing patches was also a pain.

 

[happyrat1]

Gary wrote
START with a Korg Kross or a Roland Juno DS. These are boards that won't make you throw up in 5 years.

Col replied
I threw up with the Kross after 2 years.

A Cr4p LCD panel and 18 pages to scroll through for each layer was crass. Sound cutoff when changing patches was also a pain.

God knows you used to rave about it. Nowadays you're all about arrangers which are a totally different animal.

While familiarity may breed contempt I can safely say I still play my Juno DS pretty much every day, even 4 years after I bought it. All I can truly say is $500 can buy you a kickass used pro board, or a cheap ass toy you'll sell for beer money 6 months later.

Your complaints about menu diving apply to every ROMpler sold in the past 30 years.

Sound cutoff happens on a lot of pro gear. I got lucky with the Juno and my kurzweil.

If you want single knob per function these days you have to start looking at Analogs and Virtual Analogs. Either that or spring for a reconditioned Rhodes

Gary

 

[The Y_man]

Cost-function is a *major* concern for me. The keys get left at church, and being a small place (not some giant assembly hall thing) you got kids running around playing accompanied by food/drinks/sweets around the board, and unfortunately parents who seem to have the attitude of "I didn't pay for it, so all care no responsibility". The old yammy electone we had used to regularly get used as a lunch table/drink counter by some congregants. Luckily the CTK7000 doesn't have a flat surface for them to do this..... (well, they could try the speakers as a place to pop their teacup I guess...

The Y-man

 

[PianoTone]

I wonder if the Op will log in and update us on the status of their original post. If you are lurking then how about an update?

Still a bit concerned after their .... great piano sound .... comment about the E373, that is certainly not how I would describe any of the instrument sounds in the 363 that I played early last year, dire springs to mind.

Roll on lockdown easing when the Music Stores reopen and I can get in them again.

Here I am! Haven't bought anything yet, Casio just released some new Casiotones that have the AiX chip in them and for the $ seem rather awesome so I am holding off on the E373.

Couple of reviews:

FYI the main piano sound on the E373 is vastly improved from the 363, it inherits the piano sound from the EW410 (which in turn got it from the Yamaha Tyros). The 373 also has over 30 DSP effects, some velocity driven articulation on some sounds, and also 11 tones with "super articulation" effects.

I tried the Piagerro series (NP-12/32) and they were nice to play, but seem way overpriced now; the NP32 has only 10 sounds (the piano sound doesn't even come close to the E373), and the 373 has 600 tones, all the arranger functionality as well as a built in audio interface - and its 2/3 the price of the NP32. I also tried the Roland GO keys/piano - couldn't stand those 2; I had an FP-30 and that had amazing action and sounds, but the GO products don't even seem like Roland to me.

I will be waiting until I can try one of these new Casios before I decide

 

[PianoTone]

Thanks for this review.

Am agonising over going to a PSR-E463, Ek-50, and CT-X5000 from a CTK7000 right now! Context for others -the keys person is the solo backing person for singing hymns at church - we can't fit a band.... and it has to be "call up a style-voice combo on demand".

The 463 is cheap - and if I was going to go purely on price, it would be the go.

However, am seriously leaning toward the 5000 at present. Would go for the 3000 but that lack of buttons for selecting voices etc sounds like a real pain and is going to lead me to fork out a few hundred AU$.

I am assuming if you can master modifying tones and writing your own rhythms on the 7000, you'd be able to have a serious shot at the 3000/5000 (as well as decipher the manual).

The Y-man

Yamaha typically releases new versions of these every 2 years, so the 463 may be the 473 within the next few months, so you might want to hang tough if you're not in a rush - piano voice on the 373 is much better than the 463

 

[The Y_man]

Couldn't wait and ended up forking out AU$599 for a CT-X3000 yesterday

Couldn't justify the extra AU$200 for the buttons on the X5000.

Happy to report the new AiX engine sound is awesome compared to the old AHL - especially in the pianos. The strings are still a bit harsh and the woodwind/guitars are pretty crappy, but overall the unit sound less harsh (I had to eq the high ends out and boost the low on the CTK-7000). The backing variations and sounds are a lot better than the 7000 - I like the 4 variations per backing (casio terminology "rhythm" = Yamaha "styles")


The Y-man

 

[PianoTone]

Couldn't wait and ended up forking out AU$599 for a CT-X3000 yesterday

Couldn't justify the extra AU$200 for the buttons on the X5000.

Happy to report the new AiX engine sound is awesome compared to the old AHL - especially in the pianos. The strings are still a bit harsh and the woodwind/guitars are pretty crappy, but overall the unit sound less harsh (I had to eq the high ends out and boost the low on the CTK-7000). The backing variations and sounds are a lot better than the 7000 - I like the 4 variations per backing (casio terminology "rhythm" = Yamaha "styles")


The Y-man

Awesome congrats! Always exciting getting a new piece of gear; hope it works out well for you keep us posted on how it goes