P125 USB connection for MIDI In/Out

[Steve Bolander]

First of all, please excuse my lack of knowledge regarding a keyboard's USB Type B jack being used for a MIDI connection.

I don't understand why my P125 doesn't have conventional 5-pin MIDI In's and Out's. If anyone could explain why Yamaha omitted these jacks from some of their keyboards, I would really appreciate it.

As a result, I have no idea how to make a basic MIDI connection between my P125 and my Genos2, which does have the familiar 5-pin MIDI jacks (actually two pairs of them). Thus, using my P125 as a simple weighted-key controller for the Genos2.

Is there a special conversion cable that has a "square" Type B USB plug on one end and a pair of normal MIDI plugs on the other? I've gone searching for such a cable and all I can find are a few Type A to MIDI cables. And if there is such a cable, could somebody direct me toward the purchase of one?

 

[SeaGtGruff]

You'll have to ask Yamaha and other keyboard manufacturers why they omit standard MIDI connectors on some models in favor of USB-MIDI, but I'd guess it's primarily a cost consideration, coupled with an expectation of the types of users (home musicians versus stage musicians) who'll be most inclined to buy a given model. MIDI connectors are useful for musicians who'll be connecting multiple keyboards together, or connecting a keyboard to a MIDI sound module, whereas USB ports are useful for musicians who'll be connecting a single keyboard to a computer, laptop, tablet, or smart phone.

Most keyboards that have only a USB-MIDI port will need to be connected to a USB host device, which for most home users will be a computer that uses either a proprietary or built-in USB-MIDI driver along with MIDI software such as a DAW and possibly virtual instrument software or soft synths. If you want to connect such a keyboard to another device that has standard MIDI connectors, you'll generally need to go through either a computer which will serve as a MIDI router between the two, or a standalone USB-MIDI interface device which can handle the conversion of data from MIDI to USB and vice versa, and which can route MIDI messages from one port and/or channel to another.

This issue comes up in the forums from time to time, and there are numerous threads which list some of the available interfaces devices, but a couple that I can think of off the top of my head are listed below. You might want to look for other threads on this topic for additional suggestions.

Kenton MIDI USB Host

iConnectivity mioXM

When choosing a device, make sure you get one that can act as a USB host device, because a simple USB-MIDI interface cable will not suffice.

 

[happyrat1]

They save $4 per keyboard

 

[Biggles]

If there is ever an excuse for undertaking a GAS exercise, this is it.

Go buy a MIDI keyboard controller

 

[Steve Bolander]

Thank you all for your replies up to this point.

My intentions were to keep it simple in sending just a MIDI Out signal from my P125 to my Genos2 to take advantage of the P125's weighted keyboard during playing. Nothing fancy. No computers, converters, routers or additional controllers in a basic home studio recording environment.

For some reason I thought the USB output on the P125 already contained MIDI information that didn't require anything other than perhaps an adapter plug/cable to be plugged into the Genos2's MIDI In jack.

However, it sounds like an inexpensive solution is not going to happen from what I'm hearing so far.

 

[Biggles]

Steve

What are you actually wanting to achieve?

ie a hammer action on your Genos or adding the P125 sounds to your Genos, etc?

The iConnectivity mioXM seems to cost between 250&300 USD

 

[happyrat1]

Just pointing out that USB MIDI Hosts require a Class Compliant USB MIDI keyboard hooked up at the USB side of the chain.

AFAIR, older Yamahas did not meet this requirement and require proprietary drivers to connect to USB.

How old is your Yamaha and did you have to install drivers to connect to your computer?

Without a driver these simply do not work with any HOST box.

Here's all the proper low priced options available these days and expensive stuff like the Sipario won't work any better at all; IF at all.

Amazon.com : usb midi host

 

[SeaGtGruff]

There is a USB MIDI Host Box from DoReMIDI that costs $45:

https://www.doremidi.cn/h-pd-2.html

I should stress that I have no personal experience with any of the products mentioned, so I can't vouch for any of them, so I generally try to mention companies who have established a good reputation.

Also, a USB MIDI host box (from any company) will only work if the USB MIDI keyboard is a "class compatible" device, since you can't install a proprietary USB-MIDI driver on it. I believe that the P-125 is class-compatible, but again, I have no personal experience with it.

Edit: I see happyrat1 also mentioned class compatibility as I was typing. Older Yamaha models were not class-compatible, but AFAIK Yamaha has been making their newer keyboards class-compatible for several years now, and I believe the P-125 is supposed to be a class-compatible model.

Additional edit: Even if you are currently using one of Yamaha's USB-MIDI drivers with your P-125, that doesn't mean it isn't class compliant, because it should be able to send and receive a basic 16-channel MIDI signal without using a driver. Yamaha makes two types of USB-MIDI drivers: a standard driver that just handles MIDI data, and the Steinberg USB audio driver that handles both MIDI and audio data. You can use a class-compliant keyboard with a computer without needing a proprietary driver, but in some cases a driver is recommended so you can enjoy additional benefits such as 32 channels of MIDI (if a given model supports two MIDI ports, which is true of the Genos but not the P-125) or the use of built-in USB audio (which the P-125 does not have).

 

[happyrat1]

Amazon has a 30 day no quibble refund policy so it wouldn't cost anything to try.

 

[Pete The Greek]

I had a Yamaha P-121 which is electronically identical to the P-125. But see caveat, below RE the replacement model (P-125a).

I agree with SeaGtGruff that the USB MIDI Host box from DoReMIDI looks like it would do the job. But I haven't tried that particular device.

I used the P-121 to control Pianoteq software, using only via a USB "printer cable" (USB-A to USB-B) to connect the "host" (PC), with local control turned OFF on the Yamaha (disconnecting the keys from its internal sound generator). The Raspberry Pi acted as the USB host. MIDI data (note on/off, sustain pedal, etc) went over the USB cable to the Raspberry Pi. Pianoteq created a digital audio signal, which came back over the USB cable to the P-121. The P-121's USB audio interface then converted that digital audio signal into analog audio, and routed it out the P-121's speakers.

I tried this 3 different hosts, and it worked with all of them: Raspberry Pi, Linux, and Windows.

IMPORTANT CAVEAT: My P-121 did, in fact, have a USB audio interface (one of the surprising features, given the absence of MIDI in/out jacks). But I see that the P-125a does NOT have the USB Audio interface. Perhaps this was another casualty of the COVID-19 "chip shortage". One way to find out is to plug your keyboard into a computer and see if it detects a USB audio interface. You might need to install a driver first (I didn't have to for Linux).

 

[Steve Bolander]

What are you actually wanting to achieve?

ie a hammer action on your Genos or adding the P125 sounds to your Genos, etc?

Simply note-on/note-off messages from the P125 to the Genos2. (And hopefully sustain pedal messages.) Nope, no need or desire to add any of the P125's sounds to the Genos2. Strictly a controller and nothing else.

 

[Steve Bolander]

How old is your Yamaha and did you have to install drivers to connect to your computer?

Without a driver these simply do not work with any HOST box.

Here's all the proper low priced options available these days and expensive stuff like the Sipario won't work any better at all; IF at all.

Amazon.com : usb midi host

My P125 is about three years old. And regarding computer connection, that's something I don't intend to do. Just a keyboard-to-keyboard connection in a controller capacity.

And the $50 host boxes that you directed me to appear to be exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.

 

[Steve Bolander]

There is a USB MIDI Host Box from DoReMIDI that costs $45:

https://www.doremidi.cn/h-pd-2.html

and I believe the P-125 is supposed to be a class-compatible model.

The DoReMIDI host box that you mention appears to be yet another device in the $50 price range that will likely handle the simple tasks that I seek. Plus, since it's also sold by Amazon, I'll be able to "try and return" (like HappyRat mentioned) if it doesn't do the job. Thank you.

And as far as I can tell, my P125 is, in fact, class compliant. So there should be no issues there.

 

[Steve Bolander]

Amazon has a 30 day no quibble refund policy so it wouldn't cost anything to try.

Yep. Exactly what I intend to do. Thanks.

 

[Steve Bolander]

But I see that the P-125a does NOT have the USB Audio interface.

You are correct. However, since I don't have a need to move actual sounds/audio via USB, the absence of that feature fortunately is a moot point. But thanks for the info anyway.

 

[Steve Bolander]

Per the suggestions of both SeaGtGruff and happyrat1, I ordered the DoReMIDI unit from Amazon and it will be here by this coming Sunday. Upon its receipt, I'll post up the results of its functionality for my desired application.

Thanks again to all of you for your assistance. You guys are great!

 

[Cosmos]

First of all, please excuse my lack of knowledge regarding a keyboard's USB Type B jack being used for a MIDI connection.

I don't understand why my P125 doesn't have conventional 5-pin MIDI In's and Out's. If anyone could explain why Yamaha omitted these jacks from some of their keyboards, I would really appreciate it.

As a result, I have no idea how to make a basic MIDI connection between my P125 and my Genos2, which does have the familiar 5-pin MIDI jacks (actually two pairs of them). Thus, using my P125 as a simple weighted-key controller for the Genos2.

Is there a special conversion cable that has a "square" Type B USB plug on one end and a pair of normal MIDI plugs on the other? I've gone searching for such a cable and all I can find are a few Type A to MIDI cables. And if there is such a cable, could somebody direct me toward the purchase of one?

Try this MidiBox:
Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out!
MIDI Box Musical Instruments USB MIDI Interface Merge Thru Box 64 MIDI Channels

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EzN6b5D

You cannot connect a USB-B to a USB-B doesn't make sense. Even Genos2 they missed to include a MIDI-Thru!

 

[Cosmos]

Try this MidiBox:
Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out!
MIDI Box Musical Instruments USB MIDI Interface Merge Thru Box 64 MIDI Channels

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EzN6b5D

You cannot connect a USB-B to a USB-B doesn't make sense. Even Genos2 they missed to include a MIDI-Thru!

Sorry, my mistake... this is a Midi Interface... it doesn't have a USB type A port. The DoReMidi is the one to go for.

 

[Cosmos]

First of all, please excuse my lack of knowledge regarding a keyboard's USB Type B jack being used for a MIDI connection.

I don't understand why my P125 doesn't have conventional 5-pin MIDI In's and Out's. If anyone could explain why Yamaha omitted these jacks from some of their keyboards, I would really appreciate it.

As a result, I have no idea how to make a basic MIDI connection between my P125 and my Genos2, which does have the familiar 5-pin MIDI jacks (actually two pairs of them). Thus, using my P125 as a simple weighted-key controller for the Genos2.

Is there a special conversion cable that has a "square" Type B USB plug on one end and a pair of normal MIDI plugs on the other? I've gone searching for such a cable and all I can find are a few Type A to MIDI cables. And if there is such a cable, could somebody direct me toward the purchase of one?

Sorry, my mistake... this is a Midi Interface

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004844198259.html

It doesn't have a USB type A port. The DoReMidi is the one to go for.

 

[Steve Bolander]

The DoReMidi is the one to go for.

Yep. That's the one I'm going to try first. And, I'm suspecting (and hoping) that it just might be perfect for my desired application. I'll let you know after it arrives this weekend.