P125 USB connection for MIDI In/Out

[Cosmos]

Yep. That's the one I'm going to try first. And, I'm suspecting (and hoping) that it just might be perfect for my desired application. I'll let you know after it arrives this weekend.

Btw, I bought a Genos2 also and if I want I was given a Korg N1 synth that has a fully hammered full keyboard I could connect to. But I found that to play synth type sounds the G2 keyboard is quicker and better than a piano type one. I got quite deep into using MIDI with my G2 and also using a DAW on my laptop where I could use VST synths, effects etc. Should you be needing any help with regards to MIDI let me know I do my best. One thing the G2 has that I like and searched for was that it stores the MIDI settings in each Registration. But then I got disappointed to learn that it doesn't have SST. Good luck with your setup.

 

[Steve Bolander]

Should you be needing any help with regards to MIDI let me know I do my best.

Thank you very much for your offer of assistance. That is much appreciated.

And, thank you for the additional you provided regarding Genos2's MIDI setup. Especially the fact that it can store MIDI settings within registrations. I had no idea.

 

[rikkisbears]

Hi Steve, I have a doremidi interface.
Currently not using it, but it worked really well whenI had my fp10 piano connected to my sx900.
Such a pain when they don’t have 5 pin sockets.

I used to have my p121 connected to my sx 900 .
Actually used my laptop and xg works as the interface between them.
usb cables plugged into pc.
It was quite simple midi in channel 1 sx900, midi out channel 1 p121.
Press record. Nothing actually recorded , but the 2 communicated.
Bit cumbersome but it worked.

I was happy when I eventually found the doremidi interface

 

[GeraldR]

I don't agree that

You'll have to ask Yamaha and other keyboard manufacturers why they omit standard MIDI connectors on some models in favor of USB-MIDI, but I'd guess it's primarily a cost consideration, coupled with an expectation of the types of users (home musicians versus stage musicians) who'll be most inclined to buy a given model. MIDI connectors are useful for musicians who'll be connecting multiple keyboards together, or connecting a keyboard to a MIDI sound module, whereas USB ports are useful for musicians who'll be connecting a single keyboard to a computer, laptop, tablet, or smart phone.

Most keyboards that have only a USB-MIDI port will need to be connected to a USB host device, which for most home users will be a computer that uses either a proprietary or built-in USB-MIDI driver along with MIDI software such as a DAW and possibly virtual instrument software or soft synths. If you want to connect such a keyboard to another device that has standard MIDI connectors, you'll generally need to go through either a computer which will serve as a MIDI router between the two, or a standalone USB-MIDI interface device which can handle the conversion of data from MIDI to USB and vice versa, and which can route MIDI messages from one port and/or channel to another.

This issue comes up in the forums from time to time, and there are numerous threads which list some of the available interfaces devices, but a couple that I can think of off the top of my head are listed below. You might want to look for other threads on this topic for additional suggestions.

Kenton MIDI USB Host

iConnectivity mioXM

When choosing a device, make sure you get one that can act as a USB host device, because a simple USB-MIDI interface cable will not suffice.

"Most keyboards that have only a USB-MIDI port will need to be connected to a USB host device, which for most home users will be a computer" well that's a common thing to do but not essential. I have keyboards which communicate with each other using USB MIDI; okay, some of them annoyingly use USB-B. My Roland COMBO is old enough to have a full compliment of 3 DIN MIDI and 2 USB MIDI ports but can only stream audio on one of the USB ports; it conveniently replaces fancy converter cables and/or MIDI mux. But then I have a modern Yamaha keyboard which has 1, count 'em 1, USB MIDI port but only takes audio in via a separate audio mini jack (future to the back). Of course, a computer/tablet is increasingly becoming a standard component: I prefer a convertible laptop with a touch screen; anything with multiple unused USB ports can replace a USB mux (I custom built an oversize music rack and it was still not enough but the laptop replaces thousands of music pages and is easier for turning pages). The plethora of options for mounting a tablet or laptop to a music stand or keyboard rack suggests that the line between computers and digital instruments has been totally blurred. How about computer music software that runs on the GPU?

 

[amwilburn]

I had a Yamaha P-121 which is electronically identical to the P-125. But see caveat, below RE the replacement model (P-125a).

I agree with SeaGtGruff that the USB MIDI Host box from DoReMIDI looks like it would do the job. But I haven't tried that particular device.

I used the P-121 to control Pianoteq software, using only via a USB "printer cable" (USB-A to USB-B) to connect the "host" (PC), with local control turned OFF on the Yamaha (disconnecting the keys from its internal sound generator). The Raspberry Pi acted as the USB host. MIDI data (note on/off, sustain pedal, etc) went over the USB cable to the Raspberry Pi. Pianoteq created a digital audio signal, which came back over the USB cable to the P-121. The P-121's USB audio interface then converted that digital audio signal into analog audio, and routed it out the P-121's speakers.

I tried this 3 different hosts, and it worked with all of them: Raspberry Pi, Linux, and Windows.

IMPORTANT CAVEAT: My P-121 did, in fact, have a USB audio interface (one of the surprising features, given the absence of MIDI in/out jacks). But I see that the P-125a does NOT have the USB Audio interface. Perhaps this was another casualty of the COVID-19 "chip shortage". One way to find out is to plug your keyboard into a computer and see if it detects a USB audio interface. You might need to install a driver first (I didn't have to for Linux).

Correct! It was due to chip shortage (due to the fire at AKM that happened in late 2020, which was during the pandemic, yes) that not only affected electronic instruments , but even cars! (that's why people were waiting 6 to 18 months for certain car models). That was a very solemn emergency meeting we had when they were announcing the chip shortages to us :/

Also correct, the P125a and the PA125, they couldn't secure the needed chips (for the reason you thought), so they dropped the Audio interface, otherwise identical.

And yes, most manufacturer's have been dropping 5 pin midi because, as Happyrat correctly pointed out, it's a little bit of $ per keyboard saved. The P45 and FP10 don't even have dedicated line level outputs!

As for the OP's original problem, one of the midi boxes might work (please let us know if it did); I'm particularly curious because they use the USB-A port to send and receive midi, not B; and the P125 doesn't have an A port!

As an aside, I have a customer who purchased a PSRsx900, and wanted the most inexpensive 88 controller possible (you can get 88 weighted keys under $900 Cdn, but they all only have USB B midi; all the 5 pin ones are over $1k; ok not 100% true, there's a Korg D1 that has 5 pin, that's at the same $900 price point, but he also wanted built in speakers); so he purchased a custom B to B cable, and we tried them all out in the store to see if they would link with the sx900... none of the Yamahas or Rolands worked this way.

But the PXS1000 *did* work! (we stopped trying at that point, but I'm sure the other PXS's would've worked as well. Which means it would probably work on G1/G2 as well.

Mark

 

[rikkisbears]

Correct! It was due to chip shortage (due to the fire at AKM that happened in late 2020, which was during the pandemic, yes) that not only affected electronic instruments , but even cars! (that's why people were waiting 6 to 18 months for certain car models). That was a very solemn emergency meeting we had when they were announcing the chip shortages to us :/

Also correct, the P125a and the PA125, they couldn't secure the needed chips (for the reason you thought), so they dropped the Audio interface, otherwise identical.

And yes, most manufacturer's have been dropping 5 pin midi because, as Happyrat correctly pointed out, it's a little bit of $ per keyboard saved. The P45 and FP10 don't even have dedicated line level outputs!

As for the OP's original problem, one of the midi boxes might work (please let us know if it did); Iause they use the USB-A port to send and receive midi, not B; and the P125 doesn't have an A port!

As an aside, I have a customer who purchased a PSRsx900, and wanted the most inexpensive 88 controller possible (you can get 88 weighted keys under $900 Cdn, but they all only have USB B midi; all the 5 pin ones are over $1k; ok not 100% true, there's a Korg D1 that has 5 pin, that's at the same $900 price point, but he also wanted built in speakers); so he purchased a custom B to B cable, and we tried them all out in the store to see if they would link with the sx900... none of the Yamahas or Rolands worked this way.

But the PXS1000 *did* work! (we stopped trying at that point, but I'm sure the other PXS's would've worked as well. Which means it would probably work on G1/G2 as well

HI Mark. I bough an FP10 as controller for my SX900, I wanted the 88 notes. I have the DoRemidi box , worked well.
Quite frankly don’t like the sound of FP10 piano’s, but that’s not what I bought it for. I use it with Ravenscroft vst on pc.
For solo piano , actually prefer FP10 with vst’s to playing my PA5x 88 notes.
As a controller for sx900 , I used the midi box.
I purely use the sx900 sounds, I don’t use the fp10 sounds at all for arranger playing. Midi setup gets too complex in split mode.

 

[amwilburn]

Ok, good to know, the DoRemidi box does work on a B to 5pin basis! I'd never tried,

Mark

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www.youtube.com/MarkWilburnTLM/Videos
DX7, CLP300, PSR60, Roland E20, CVP309, PSRS970, Fender Strat, Ibanez SA262, Yamaha CG131, Fujiyama FC390, TUC-Kitty

 

[Steve Bolander]

Ok, good to know, the DoRemidi box does work on a B to 5pin basis!

Yes, indeed it does.

Upon receiving my DoReMidi box, I made the simple connections from my P125 to the box via USB and then onto my Genos2 via 5-pin MIDI. (Not shown in the below photo is the required power input on the back side of the DoReMidi.)

I'm now able to take advantage of my P125's hammer-like keyboard to drive my G2 as if it were a direct 5-pin MIDI connection. Since I make all of my program/patch/registration changes on the G2 itself, P125 is not used to send such changes to the G2.

Thanks to all of you who pitched in and helped out with my original problem and got me on the road to achieving my intended desires. You guys are great!!

P125 USB Out
(l to r: USB port, 1/4" sustain pedal jack, 7-pin jack for LP-1 multi-pedal unit)

DoReMidi USB In / 5-pin MIDI Out
(l to r: USB port, 5-pin MIDI Out, 5-pin MIDI In)

And, it all works!!
(Top to bottom: HDMI/VGA monitor & tablet, MM6, P125, Genos2)

 

[rikkisbears]

Hi , interesting , you have your p125 above your G2.
Never tried that. I’ve always had my piano’s on the bottom, arranger above.
When I was using my PA5x as controller for sx900 , I had to have sx900 to the side ( L shape) because the PA5x paas speaker got in the way of being able to place sx900 above.
It actually worked quite well thanks to the sx900 registration sequencer.
Just set songs up as registrations, put the registrations into sequencer, and it was a simple tap on a pedal to cycle them thru. All but made the sx900 hands free. Love that function on the sx.

Glad you got it working, it’s a great little box.

 

[amwilburn]

Agreed, I also always put the 88 on the bottom, arranger on top or to the left!
But if it works, it works! Grats Steve on getting the desired setup

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www.youtube.com/MarkWilburnTLM/Videos
DX7, CLP300, PSR60, Roland E20, CVP309, PSRS970, Fender Strat, Ibanez SA262, Yamaha CG131, Fujiyama FC390, TUC-Kitty

 

[Steve Bolander]

Hi , interesting , you have your p125 above your G2.
Never tried that. I’ve always had my piano’s on the bottom, arranger above.

Agreed, I also always put the 88 on the bottom, arranger on top or to the left!

Actually, that's the way I used to have my rig arranged back when I was still running my Tyros 5. But, since the Genos2 is much more touchscreen and menu-driven than the Tyros, I need to have it closer at waist-level to properly see and reach those controls.

Plus, putting the piano on the second floor gave me clearance to move the entire rack further to the left in my otherwise snug studio.

My previous set-up w/ Tyros:

 

[rikkisbears]

Hi,
my latest setup, I have my sx900 mounted vertically controlled by my PA5x.
I only play one set of keys. It works quite well, the sx900 buttons are within very easy reach from sitting position.

 

[Steve Bolander]

Hi,
my latest setup, I have my sx900 mounted vertically controlled by my PA5x.
I only play one set of keys. It works quite well, the sx900 buttons are within very easy reach from sitting position.View attachment 3506

Nice.