PSR-433 or YPG-235?

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Hi Joe,

Quote : "For now my goals are to learn keys, notes, and chords. I would like to do this by having the auto accompaniment, and I would like the ability to play at least some dance tracks"

Then I'd definitely go for the E433. Don't go for the NP-V 60 anyway, it has less sounds and less functionalities than the NP-V 80. If I remember, you cannot use an USB stick with the NP-V 60, which is a shame, and it doesn't have the Live! piano voice of the NP-V 80, either.

Ah, yes, another interesting feature of the NP-V 80 that you might want to try is that it has a "full keyboard" chord capability. This means that instead of splitting the keyboard in two parts to play the chords with the left hand and the melody with the right hand, you can (if you wish) play "normally" on the whole keyboard. The instrument will then recognise when you are playing a chord and not a melody (or two melodies) and it will automatically modify the accompaniment accordingly. This is a pro feature that you would normally find only on much more expensive boards. :cool:

As for looping, on the E433, you can loop part of a song starting from a point A until a point B (page 25 of the Owner's Manual). But remember, this is a keyboard, not a sampler, so you will be limited to the on-board sounds (although you can tweak them to a certain extent). What do you call a "real loop function", by the way? If it is not for live playing, you can always record your keyboard on a computer with a sequencing software and loop your tracks as you wish within the sequencer.

You can have a look at the Owner's Guide of the E433 here, if you don't have it already:

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi/english/port/psre433_en_om_a0.pdf

For music theory lessons, the E433 will be perfect. I was taking music theory lessons until one year ago and I had the PSR E413, one of the E433 predecessors and it was very good at the job. And it is more dance-oriented than other boards that you have mentioned, it has more Dance styles and you will be able to upload more styles if the on-board styles are insufficient for your musical purposes. Also, the possibility to interfere in real time with the sounds thanks to the two controller knobs is really a "plus".

Last, when you'll be a better keyboardist and you'll get tired of your keyboard (which will take some time), you can always sell it second hand and buy a new, more sophisticated one. This is what I have done when I have bought the E433: I have sold my E413 for the half of its value. Since the E433 was about the same price as the E413 at the time of its release, this means I have obtained the E433 for half of its price ;)
A sensible tip: when you change keyboards, always sold your old keyboard after the new one has arrived to your home! A few years ago, I spent two months without a keyboard and it was a torture, these little guys quickly become an addiction once you begin to play seriously. So you've been warned...:D

Good music, :)

Vinciane.
 

happyrat1

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Offhand I'd say take a look at the customer reviews on Amazon before you make up your mind.

The DGX 640 gets MUCH better reviews than the NP-V 80 and for the difference in price I wouldn't settle for the Piaggero.

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Piagge...id=1380561931&sr=8-1&keywords=piaggero+np-v80

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-DGX640...e=UTF8&qid=1380562041&sr=8-1&keywords=dgx+640

Also if you're buying used and someone feeds you a bullsh*t line about paying $900 for the DGX just point them at the Amazon link where it sells for $599 brand new.

You should be able to knock anyone's price down to $350 even if it's in mint condition.

My advice Joe, is don't settle. If you really want to learn to master the keyboard then your best bet is to start out with something that has hammer action keys and learn to play properly from the beginning.

That way you won't have to unlearn all your bad habits later on when you upgrade.

Just my $0.02

Gary ;)
 
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Well, I made some good progress today. I went down to both Guitar Center and Sam Ash (same building actually) and played around with the PSR-E433, the YPG-235, YPG-650, and both the NP-V60 and V80.

I believe the NP-V60 is basically the YPG-235 in a slimmer, more robust case with crappy speakers. It seems that they removed the labels from the keyboard and put in skinny little oval speakers to save space. The sound is not great without plugging it in. Same goes for the NP-V80, although they have coaxial speakers so the high end is a little clearer. The YPG-235 beats them hands-down on raw sound with the larger ROUND coaxial speakers.

Functionality between the V60 and the YPG-235 is almost identical - maybe there are 5 different styles and a handful of extra voices, but that's it. Same buttons and everything, just in different places. Maybe there's something I'm missing but nothing significant.

I would love the sleek, sexier V80 but it is not worth the extra money over the YPG-235 (basically you get the USB connectivity, plus a couple of extra sounds/features, also comes with a pedal or something).

I played the YPG-650 in Sam Ash. It is very nice, it's also BIG. I'm not sure it's the right machine for me: I believe weighted keys are a necessary feature for someone learning to play piano. If piano is the focus, the P30(?) is tough to beat - a beautiful, solid, simple machine with great sound and great feeling action, and at a good price point. But for me, playing synth/electro style notes on weighted keys felt strange. For the piano features it was great. My intent is not to focus purely on piano playing. However the GST action of the YPG-235 is nice to play piano with.

If the PSR had 71 keys with the GST action I would consider it. Mainly I don't like the response of the keys. After having read the instruction manuals for all these units, and narrowing it down and trying them all again, the YPG seems like the best option for me, at this time, with my budget. If I really catch on to the keys, I'd likely end up with a weighted key digital piano and some kind of midi/synth, and probably an arranger as well (and now I understand why all these keyboard musicians lug around 3-5 different machines). The YPG seems to be the a good compromise until I figure out what path I want to take.

Before I make a purchase I will try the YPG-650 once more. I really wanted to check out the Piaggeros (and I HATE the local Guitar Center) so I didn't spend a ton of time there as Sam Ash had the Piagerros and both of the other instruments I wanted to look at.

Sorry these are so long, this is a very complicated decision and it could be easy to spend a lot of money on the wrong instrument.

One last question (for now, anyway) - what do you get with the extra USB connectivity of the NP-V80 and the YPG-650? I'm not sure I understand the benefits after reading the manual.
 

happyrat1

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Joe >>> I'm not a Yamaha guy but I believe the USB ports on Yamaha keyboards are designed to carry audio as well as MIDI data though I'm not sure if they do so simultaneously.

The downside of this is that Yamaha USB ports are not USB MIDI Class Compliant and hence if you wish to use them with a different OS than Winderz or Mac you are SOL.

Since I have been running a Linux only shop since the turn of the century I refuse to run any Yamaha stuff for this reason.

Upshot is that whenever you upgrade your computer's OS you are dependent on Yamaha to supply the necessary drivers.

Gary
 
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Thanks Gary, and Vinciane. They Yamaha's have either 1 or 2 USB ports. The first is for hooking up to a computer and downloading/uploading files. The second is for a flash drive, so I guess you can save directly to flash and maybe not need a computer at all for storing files. I think there is something about the file types that they use. I'll have to read more on it. Not sure how much extra cash that's worth to me.

I hope if I go with the YPG it doesn't seem like I'm ignoring advice - I have learned a bunch in a short period of time and think I am equipped to make the right decision. I don't know that I could really go wrong with anything mentioned in this thread, I think it just depends on what my goals are. Like I said I will give the YPG-650 another shot before making a final decision since it has the weighted keys. In the mean time I will clean up that guitar. I could probably sell it for close to $300, but I'd be lucky to get $200 from the music stores. Either way it would get me close to the YPG-640 if that's the right choice.

Thanks again, I will let you know how things turn out :)
 
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Haha, check this out: I asked Yamaha about the difference between the YPG-235 and the Piaggero 60:

Thank you for your inquiry.

They are the same the only main upgrade is the NPV-60 has more flash memory (1.8MB instead of 373KB ) to download SMF songs into the memory.

Thank you, best regards,
 
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I am headed out one last time to try the weighted keys of a new DGX-650 in Guitar center. I heard from the guy selling the used 640, who said we can meet at a park with electricity. A little odd, but, it includes a bench ($40) and the 3-pedal accessory ($75) and he'll drop the price to $285 to cover $15 for a new key assembly. So if I like the weighted keys, or you guys think playing electronic/synth style music with weighted keys is no big deal (thinks like drum tracks and quick sounds seems like it would be difficult), I will consider taking a drive down to see it.
 

happyrat1

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For a $15 lousy price cut I wouldn't do it. If he's willing to let it go for $200 even then I'd consider it and I'd NEVER close a deal on a park bench. What is he? A Gypsy?

My advice is to take a pass and wait for the next deal.

It's probably hot and he doesn't want you sending the cops after him after you take it in for repair for $150.

The deal stinks like rotting fish. WALK AWAY!!!!!
 
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Gary, I agree. I will pass up on that one.

So I just spent about 2hrs comparing basically the same keyboard with and without weighted keys. I have to say that Yamaha really nailed the GST keys - for a non-weighted, non-hammer action key, the touch/feel/response is very, very good! The weighted keys are really nice too. It felt like a real piano at first thought. It took a few minutes to get used to the speed/action and get my timing down. I definitely notice my hands/fingers getting banged up a little more with fast notes/chords. Maybe I have to try not to lift my hands as much. I hope it's not the kind of thing that makes me not want to play because it's tiring and/or painful! I have been struggling with a little RSI from using the keyboard at work. It just started getting better and music keyboard is definitely a different position.

I am going to look at functionality (specs, features, etc) online a little. I could probably trade in my guitar for a straight trade on a YPG-235. That is a nice deal. Would have to buy stand, bench, power cord, and sustain pedal. Or I could combine the guitar trade-in with the $300 cash I've set aside (plus a few extra bucks) and get the DGX-640 new at Guitar Center. Includes stand and bench.

The 640 has a lot more sounds (has the Live! Piano which is pretty nice). It has the USB for direct saving files or transferring MIDI to the keyboard (I really didn't want to have my computer in my music room, trying spend less time staring at this screen) and I like the ability to have more styles (and voices?) saved on a flash drive.

Weighted keys is just like the choice between electric and acoustic guitar. I sold my acoustic a while back during college, and now I can only play for a few minutes before my hands and forearm can't take anymore. But my focus has always been the electric.
 

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