Roland Fantom O series

[HighlandStudio91]

I found a guy who has been doing tutorials on the 0-series for about a week now....very helpful!

 

[anotherscott]

We'll be entirely on our own gentlemen, for who knows how long.....not a rosy prospect....

90% of the stuff in the regular Fantom tutorials will apply to the Fantom-0 as well.

I must admit that I've been looking at this one (and the MODX), as I venture into synths. Look forward to comparisons as users start getting comfortable with the 07.

Here's a basic feature comparison I put together... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iQtFcxZ_BDkwn9Onr7JsEM0adTvccxBAsplEmdSuGjo/edit?usp=sharing

Sound-wise, just based on the underlying technologies, Roland will have the edge in VA synthesis and tonewheel organ emulation; Yamaha will have the edge in FM synthesis. Things will get more subjective when you look at acoustic instrument emulations. But in terms of the tech, Yamaha's sampling engine is deeper in terms of how many samples can be associated with a single note of a single instrument (i.e. for different velocities or articulations), though on some sounds, Roland adds modeling to their sampled sounds (the "SuperNATURAL Acoustic" instruments).

As for the action, if you're looking at an 88, I think the Roland is probably better; if you're looking at the 61/76 I think Yamaha is. But this can be pretty subjective, too.

 

[HighlandStudio91]

90% of the stuff in the regular Fantom tutorials will apply to the Fantom-0 as well.

If this is the case, then why is Ed Diaz working on making 25 tutorial videos specifically for the 0-series? It took me 2 weeks just to figure out that you have to press & hold the pattern clips, just to highlight them(in order to arrange the clips the way you want it, when adding them into a group.) Just a little tidbit of information no one seemed to have and yet, so important as to delay me from making any songs for 2 weeks! That said, more Fantom tutorials are necessary(at least to those who are transitioning from other keyboard workstations like Korg.)

 

[anotherscott]

If this is the case, then why is Ed Diaz working on making 25 tutorial videos specifically for the 0-series?

I'd say probably to make things more clear for 0-owners, so they don't have to worry about the 10% that is different, and also to help generate excitement/enthusiasm for the new product. From a marketing perspective, it makes sense that, despite all the similarities, they would want the 0 to still be seen as its own product, with its own committed support from Roland, and not merely a Fantom also-ran.

Really, if you don't believe me that the products are 90% the same, just download the manuals and compare them.

 

[lmederos]

I went to a local dealer and was able to compare the MODX next to the new Fantom 07/08.

I must confess I was disappointed with the MODX keybed. It is not horrible, but my PSR-SX900 keybed is IMHO better than the MODX; the Fantom 08 is weighted so no comparison, but the Fantom 07 feels much better than the MODX.

For me right now, Fantom 0 seems like a better choice than the MODX overall. The user interface is also a little easier than the MODX; I realize it is all subjective, but that keybed would be a problem for me.

 

[anotherscott]

I was disappointed with the MODX keybed...the Fantom 07 feels much better than the MODX....I realize it is all subjective, but that keybed would be a problem for me.

Yup, subjective. I prefer the action of the MODX7... it has a more solid landing (the Roland feels kind of "mushy" by comparison), it doesn't push back as much, and it is more even in its responsiveness from the front of the key to the back. But it's not like either one of these are first-rate actions.

 

[Biggles]

I went to a local dealer and was able to compare the MODX next to the new Fantom 07/08.

I must confess I was disappointed with the MODX keybed. It is not horrible, but my PSR-SX900 keybed is IMHO better than the MODX; the Fantom 08 is weighted so no comparison, but the Fantom 07 feels much better than the MODX.

For me right now, Fantom 0 seems like a better choice than the MODX overall. The user interface is also a little easier than the MODX; I realize it is all subjective, but that keybed would be a problem for me.

The last time I tried an MODX it came a very poor second to a Roland FA, the FA 7 keybed suited me better than the Yamaha, and whilst the Yamaha had pretty good acoustic piano sounds the other MODX sounds did not suit my ears at all but worst of all was the MODX menu system.

As you have a Yamaha in the SX then imo a different manufacturer‘s product will give you a whole new set of sounds.

I did have a Korg PA and a Korg Kross 2 and the core sounds were very similar, hence how did you find the MODX sounds compared to your SX?

 

[anotherscott]

The last time I tried an MODX it came a very poor second to a Roland FA, the FA 7 keybed suited me better than the Yamaha

The Fantom-07 action is different from the FA-07, and not as good IMO. I think the Fantom-07 action is closer to the action of the FA-06 (though the keys are a bit longer).

 

[lmederos]

As you have a Yamaha in the SX then imo a different manufacturer‘s product will give you a whole new set of sounds.

Totally agree; that is a pro for me.

 

[lmederos]

I did have a Korg PA and a Korg Kross 2 and the core sounds were very similar, hence how did you find the MODX sounds compared to your SX?

I found the sounds quite similar between the SX900 and the MODX.

 

[Biggles]

The Fantom-07 action is different from the FA-07, and not as good IMO. I think the Fantom-07 action is closer to the action of the FA-06 (though the keys are a bit longer).

Concerning, whilst I have not tried an FA 06 for its action it does have a reputation for being its weak point, a bit like it is on the Kross.

Moot point though if its the Fantom 08 version that Imederos is interested in as the PHA-4 is a pretty good action.

 

[Biggles]

The Fantom-07 action is different from the FA-07, and not as good IMO. I think the Fantom-07 action is closer to the action of the FA-06 (though the keys are a bit longer).

Over on the 0 series Fb Group a guy there has been using his new 07 for two werks setting it up and playing in readiness for their first gig using it.

Previously had a FA07 and when asked if he found any difference in the keybed actions his response was that he had not noticed anything significantly different between them.

Do you know what the differences are specifically that you quote?

 

[anotherscott]

Concerning, whilst I have not tried an FA 06 for its action it does have a reputation for being its weak point, a bit like it is on the Kross.

FA-06 has the same action as the Juno DS61, which I believe you are familiar with.

FA-07 has an upgraded action (reportedly a version of the Fatar TP/9). The keys are a bit longer, and they are semi-weighted instead of unweighted. And, well, it just feels different.

I'm not certain about the DS76, but I think it has an unweighted version of the semi-weighted action that is in the FA-07. But I haven't played that one personally.

Moot point though if its the Fantom 08 version that Imederos is interested in as the PHA-4 is a pretty good action.

Right. But lmederos talked about preferring the Fantom-07 and PSR-SX900 actions to the MODX, and you talked about preferring the FA-07 action to the MODX, so I figured--despite the interest in the 88s--in this case, you were both comparing these boards to a MODX7 (or MODX 6), because comparing a Fantom-07/FA-07/PSR-SX900 to a MODX8 is really an apples-to-oranges comparison... as lmederos said, "the Fantom 08 is weighted so no comparison." So I assume we just were tangentially discussing how these non-hammer actions compare. Which indeed may not be relevant to the actual decision lmederos is trying to make here, if he's ultimately going to buy an 88 anyway!

But in terms of 88 actions, I think I'd probably prefer the PHA-4 the Fantom-08 to the GHS in the MODX8. Funny thing about the GHS, it has felt pretty different to me in some of the different keyboards that have had it, and sometimes I can like it, but for some reason, I particularly didn't like it when I tried it in a MODX8. But I haven't actually tried a Fantom-08 myself so that's why I'm hedging here.

Previously had a FA07 and when asked if he found any difference in the keybed actions his response was that he had not noticed anything significantly different between them.

Do you know what the differences are specifically that you quote?

I'm pretty sure the FA-07 is semi-weighted and the Fantom-07 is unweighted, and the Fantom-07 keys are slightly shorter than those on the FA-07 (but not as short as those on the FA-06/DS61). I'd say that the Fantom-07 keys, while as I mentioned being a little longer than those on the DS61, feel pretty similar to those on the DS61 overall, while the FA-07 keys felt better than those on the FA-06/DS61. But my comment mostly just came down to what my fingers tell me. I preferred the feel of the FA-07 to the Fantom-07. More specifically, I noticed an improvement in feel when going from a DS61 to an FA-07, I noticed little-to-no improvement in feel when going from a DS61 to a Fantom-07. But again, there is always subjectivity to this stuff, too.

 

[Biggles]

Cheers Scott, very informative.

 

[anotherscott]

may be sitting on our hands for quite a long time, before we completely wrap our heads around the Fanom-0. We'll be entirely on our own gentlemen, for who knows how long.....not a rosy prospect....

Here's a video that may help, if you're watching Fantom videos and having trouble following on your Fantom-0... it points out the main control surface differences, and shows how anything you see done with a Fantom knob/button/slider that the Fantom-0 doesn't have can be done from the screen instead.

 

[HighlandStudio91]

Thanks...I'll check it out.

 

[HighlandStudio91]

Here's a video that may help, if you're watching Fantom videos and having trouble following on your Fantom-0... it points out the main control surface differences, and shows how anything you see done with a Fantom knob/button/slider that the Fantom-0 doesn't have can be done from the screen instead.

When I went to watch this video, I realized that I am already familiar with ZT audio. A problem that neither ZT Audio or anyone else addresses...is detailed info on the Patter/Group/Song process. For a long time, I could not figure out how to un-highlight a pattern...but then I found a YouTuber that explained this. Still however, I am stuck on trying to assign patterns into the Group section(as I now cannot figure out how to re-highlight the patterns so that I can arrange them properly into a group.
I periodically check the Roland Support YT channel...but nothing yet.
I hate the Fantom's recording method with a passion & I still have about 15 days before my retailer's return policy is up....so I am still considering returning it.
There's something that I have always disliked terribly about Roland workstations...which is why I have never bought a Roland keyboard until recently....now I am beginning to think I made a mistake by going with Roland.
It's not just the learning curve that bothers me...but the absence of a linear sequencer that's beginning to feel like a deal-breaker.

 

[anotherscott]

Ah, I've never done anything with sequencers, and while the sequencer functions/capabilities of the Fantom and Fantom-0 are the same, I don't know if some of the mechanics may be different by virtue of the scaled down control surface. But trying to make something function as a linear sequencer if it was designed for that is bound to be an exercise in frustration. It's why some people still prefer the older (but still available) Yamaha MOXF6 or Roland FA over their newer boards. In "current" board, if you want a linear sequencer, I think you have to stick with Korg or Kurzweil.

 

[HighlandStudio91]

Ah, I've never done anything with sequencers, and while the sequencer functions/capabilities of the Fantom and Fantom-0 are the same, I don't know if some of the mechanics may be different by virtue of the scaled down control surface. But trying to make something function as a linear sequencer if it was designed for that is bound to be an exercise in frustration. It's why some people still prefer the older (but still available) Yamaha MOXF6 or Roland FA over their newer boards. In "current" board, if you want a linear sequencer, I think you have to stick with Korg or Kurzweil.

I had a MOXF & sequencing on such an archaic display is retarded, so I sold it. The Korg Nautilus has half of the physical controls than the Fantom and is $700 more(which is why I passed on it.)
Kurzweil's display screens are still too outdated for my taste and although the K2700 is interesting, it only comes in an 88-key version...so it's a beyond my budget.
I once had a Yamaha MODX7(but at the time I had bought it, it only had a sh*tty performance recorder in it)....& not long after I had sold it, Yamaha decided to come up with an OS update with a full song sequencer in it.
Don't really want to re-purchase the MODX though, as the MODX does not have wav export nor sampling & Cubase is a nightmare.

I was considering Roland Zenology software as a means of accessing Roland's Zen-Core libraries, but it's subscription-based only and I am not paying Roland RENT, for the rest of my life.
At least with my Fantom 06, I can circumvent Roland's bullsh*t rent program...as I OWN it and quite frankly, I could not care a less about adding any modelled synths to my Fantom(especially since there are plenty of high quality Roland synth-clone software out there for purchase for a fraction of the cost.)
All this said, I might as well keep my Fantom....but perhaps I may add another hardware workstation to my set-up next year(as word has it, Korg is working on something interesting for next year's Winter Namm.)

 

[anotherscott]

I went to edit that sentence in my post that was supposed to read "But trying to make something function as a linear sequencer if it was NOT designed for that is bound to be an exercise in frustration" but it was too late to edit, but obviously you got my meaning!

Even the MODX still doesn't have a traditional linear sequencer (even after the update).

Your other options would appear to be older models, like maybe a used Kronos or Motif XF. Or maybe do your sequencing externally, using a PC/Mac program, iPad app, etc.