Split Horn Sound

[Doug Lanier]

Does any current keyboard split the Horn sounds like the FantomG series did? It was so cool to go from 3 horns playing a unison line, then hear them split on 3 note chords, (one instrument for each note), instead of going from 3 horns playing unison to 9 horns playing (3 instruments for each note)

 

[SeaGtGruff]

That sounds like what Yamaha calls an "ensemble voice." The Genos has several ensemble voices, as did the Tyros5 before it. I don't know what other keyboard manufacturers call this, or which of their models have it.

 

[Doug Lanier]

That sounds like what Yamaha calls an "ensemble voice." The Genos has several ensemble voices, as did the Tyros5 before it. I don't know what other keyboard manufacturers call this, or which of their models have it.

Thanks!

 

[CowboyNQ]

Does any current keyboard split the Horn sounds like the FantomG series did? It was so cool to go from 3 horns playing a unison line, then hear them split on 3 note chords, (one instrument for each note), instead of going from 3 horns playing unison to 9 horns playing (3 instruments for each note)

I reckon I could easily do this on my Korg Krome. I say "I reckon" because I've never tried it and it's packed up for a tour at the moment.

But I'm 99% sure I could set up a Combi with each instrument transposed as necessary.

 

[Doug Lanier]

I reckon I could easily do this on my Korg Krome. I say "I reckon" because I've never tried it and it's packed up for a tour at the moment.

But I'm 99% sure I could set up a Combi with each instrument transposed as necessary.

Please explain how to do this...

When playing a “3 piece horn section”...

On a normal keyboard patch with trumpet, tenor sax, and trombone layered, what happens (and what I’m trying to avoid) is:

Single unison note = all 3 horns play same note

3 note chord =
1) High note is played by all 3 horns
2) Middle note is played by all 3 horns
3) Low note is played by all 3 horns

This makes it sound like you’re going from a 3 piece Horn section to a nine piece section, which sounds very unrealistic.

What the Fantom G did, and what sounds much more realistic :

Single unison note = all 3 horns play the same note

3 note chord =

1) High note played by trumpet only
2) Middle note played by tenor sax only
3) Low note played by trombone only

Got any ideas on how to make this happen?

 

[CowboyNQ]

Yep as I said I would just transpose each instrument in a combi so that each instrument would play (for example) root, third, seventh.

But again, I've not actually tried this, although it seems simple and I'd be shocked and horrified if the Krome couldn't do it.

 

[Biggles]

Not sure if your query relates to ine of your Workstations or to your Arranger.

Your PA 1000 has an Ensemble function.

Press and hold the Shift then press Ensemble button to get the menu that allows you to select which ensemble format to use, my 700 seems to default to Block which gives a Jazzy sound.

That said your 1000 probably has many more choices than my 700.

 

[Doug Lanier]

Yep as I said I would just transpose each instrument in a combi so that each instrument would play (for example) root, third, seventh.

But again, I've not actually tried this, although it seems simple and I'd be shocked and horrified if the Krome couldn't do it.

That might work with the root, 5, and b7 if you were just playing block chords, (playing the 3rd would not allow you to play minor chords. But the Fantom G allows you play single lines in unison and chords in 3 part harmony without changing anything. I was just wondering if any new keyboard does this...

 

[happyrat1]

You might want to take a look at the Roland FA series.

They've pretty much replaced the Fantom line and may have grandfathered over that feature.

Gary

 

[Doug Lanier]

You might want to take a look at the Roland FA series.

They've pretty much replaced the Fantom line and may have grandfathered over that feature.

Gary

Thanks brother, I looked at the FA-08 manual, but it looks like that feature died with the Fantom G.

 

[CowboyNQ]

That might work with the root, 5, and b7 if you were just playing block chords, (playing the 3rd would not allow you to play minor chords. But the Fantom G allows you play single lines in unison and chords in 3 part harmony without changing anything.

You didn't have to press a button? How did it know when you wanted unison and when you wanted to play a three part harmony? How did it know what harmony you wanted to play?

Or are you trying to say it could sense when you were playing a triad and assigned a different sound to each note? If so, that IS a cool feature and apologies for my misunderstanding. If I've understood this correctly, I'm intrigued as to what it did when you played two or four+ notes simultaneously instead of a triad.

 

[Doug Lanier]

You didn't have to press a button? How did it know when you wanted unison and when you wanted to play a three part harmony? How did it know what harmony you wanted to play?

Or are you trying to say it could sense when you were playing a triad and assigned a different sound to each note? If so, that IS a cool feature and apologies for my misunderstanding. If I've understood this correctly, I'm intrigued as to what it did when you played two or four+ notes simultaneously instead of a triad.

Yes it automatically sensed how many notes you were playing and assigned the appropriate instrument for each note, making it sound much more realistic

 

[Biggles]

Wow what a cool sound.

I have replicated the sound on my Korg Kross 2.

Its not a final solution as I have hunted through the menus and I cannot make sense of so much in there but my workaround does give me the sound so I least I can hear what it sounds like.

I set up a Combi (probably called Layer something with other makes)
Set Trumpet on Track 1
Set Trombone on Track 2
Set Sax on Track 3
Muted all other Tracks

Adjusted each Track such that:-
Trumpet on Track 1 only plays up to F#4 from bottom left key
Trombone on Track 2 only plays G4 to A4
Sax on Track 3 only plays from A#4 to top right key.

So I now have the keyboard essentially with two splits with each instrument only sounding in one of the split zones.

OK so we only have 3 notes that sound for the Trombone but that is enough for the good ole
1, 4, 5 chords
C, F & G to be easily played

That is using
C 1st inv
F root
G 2nd inv

 

[Doug Lanier]

Wow what a cool sound.

I have replicated the sound on my Korg Kross 2.

Its not a final solution as I have hunted through the menus and I cannot make sense of so much in there but my workaround does give me the sound so I least I can hear what it sounds like.

I set up a Combi (probably called Layer something with other makes)
Set Trumpet on Track 1
Set Trombone on Track 2
Set Sax on Track 3
Muted all other Tracks

Adjusted each Track such that:-
Trumpet on Track 1 only plays up to F#4 from bottom left key
Trombone on Track 2 only plays G4 to A4
Sax on Track 3 only plays from A#4 to top right key.

So I now have the keyboard essentially with two splits with each instrument only sounding in one of the split zones.

OK so we only have 3 notes that sound for the Trombone but that is enough for the good ole
1, 4, 5 chords
C, F & G to be easily played

That is using
C 1st inv
F root
G 2nd inv

Wow! Interesting workaround!

 

[Eli_Kyiv]

Here's the demo video (from 3:19):

It seems to me that this mode (I think it's called Stack Mode) is not a feature of Fantom G per se, but rather of ARX-03 expansion card.

 

[anotherscott]

Yes, the ARX-03 has "SuperNATURAL based auto-voicing for ultra-realistic ensembles" (see https://www.roland.com/global/products/arx-03/ ) and its function is described in its manual at https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/arx-03/owners_manuals/

While Roland has subsequently done lots of "SuperNATURAL Acoustic" tones with modeled behaviors (with the biggest selection of them in the Integra-7), this particular implementation does not appear to have been implemented anywhere else in the Roland world. This function may be something unique to this Fantom G expansion, and in other brands' boards, the aforementioned Genos/Tyros models.

 

[Doug Lanier]

ROLAND pay attention... We want this feature back!!!!

 

[delaware dave]

3 note chords, one instrument for each note ...

I'm assuming that you mean play one key on a keyboard and hear a 3-note chord, each note a different instrument......

Kurz easily does this. As an example a 3 zone setup; zone 1 has the base tone and plays instrument X, zone 2 is transposed 4 semitones and plays instrument Y and zone 3 is transposed 7 semitones and plays instrument Z. I could also, with a press of a button, swap out zone 2 with zone 4 which plays instrument Y but only up 3 semitones in order to get the 'minor' version of the chord.

 

[anotherscott]

I'm assuming that you mean play one key on a keyboard and hear a 3-note chord, each note a different instrument......

No, play three keys on a keyboard to hear that 3 note chord, each note a different instrument. For example, no matter which three notes you play, the bottom note will be a trombone, the middle note will be a sax, and the top note will be a trumpet. The idea is to play brass chords as you normally would, but have sounds assigned to the notes to approximate what it would sound like if you were actually playing with (in this example) a 3-piece horn section. There were also ways to customize the behavior, e.g. when you play only a single note, should just a single horn play it, or should all three horns play that note (in their appropriate octaves).

This function may be something unique to this Fantom G expansion, and in other brands' boards, the aforementioned Genos/Tyros models.

It looks like it was also in the Roland VP-770.

 

[delaware dave]

No, play three keys on a keyboard to hear that 3 note chord, each note a different instrument. For example, no matter which three notes you play, the bottom note will be a trombone, the middle note will be a sax, and the top note will be a trumpet. The idea is to play brass chords as you normally would, but have sounds assigned to the notes to approximate what it would sound like if you were actually playing with (in this example) a 3-piece horn section. There were also ways to customize the behavior, e.g. when you play only a single note, should just a single horn play it, or should all three horns play that note (in their appropriate octaves).


It looks like it was also in the Roland VP-770.

No Scott, what he asked for was the ability to hear a three note chord, each note playing a different instrument. That's exactly the RESULT I would get with what i described above, the only difference is that i dont have to play the entire 3 note chord, instead i play a single note but achieve the same result . As the poster asked "..Got any ideas on how to make this happen? .." Well, my solution makes it happen but with just playing a single note. Think out of the box dude....

P.S. You're welcome.....