Want a 'fun' weighted board...

[anotherscott]

I suspect I will need an audio interface to connect my iLoud Micro Monitors to it all. Any recommendations ? Good quality but not too dear. I'm not a pro, after all...

Since you have a Mac, you almost certainly do not need an audio interface, just connect the iLouds to the headphone out. An interface is needed for some things, like analog audio input (for example, to record a voice or instrument with a microphone), but for what you've been talking about so far, it seems unnecessary.

 

[Kaneda]

Thanks, that's one less thing to buy, then

Suppose I get the S61 and add the Maschine Micro to it : just connect both the controller keyboard and the Maschine to a free USB port on the Mac ?
And what if want to record something in my DAW and want to add a part I play on the MP11SE (which is right next to my desk ? Just connect the Kawai via USB to the computer (or via a USB hub if there are no ports available) ?

 

[anotherscott]

Yes, just plug the items into different USB ports.

Also, if you just need some sliders/knobs/buttons, Maschine Micro may be more than you need, e.g. you can get a Korg NanoKontrol for something like a quarter of the price. Depends what you need...

 

[Kaneda]

Yes, I guess an Nanokontrol/Nanopad would do the job, but the integration of the Maschine Mikro is something that appeals to me. It's more expensive, but it doesn't cost a fortune, really.
The whole package wouldn't cost me more than what I would have payed for the MX88 or Kross 2 88, so I'm willing to pay a bit extra an get the Maschine Micro.
But still considering the Novation as well. I'm in no hurry.
Going to do some more research but I appreciate all the advice so keep it coming

Edit : found this video by Woody from PianoShack, a quick unboxing of the Novation SL61 MK3

Doesn't review it but does just a quick look at the quality ; in any case, the keybed seems to be high quality, and the noise they make (or lack thereof) is as good as one can expect from a semi-weighted keybed, I suppose.
I know, it's splitting hairs, but I'm a demanding chap

Edit 2 : I spoke about being locked in a bit with the Native Instruments boards. There's something like the NKS standard that plug-ins need to meet in order to integrate with the Kontrol software. Could that potentially limit the number of third-party plug-ins you can use ?

 

[Biggles]

If you go with the NI S61 then I would suggest you do not buy any of the NI software packs, thoroughly testing the operation of the S61 with your iMac and Garage Band would be the first priority.

There are a reasonable number of VSTs within GB which you can check out prior to getting a MIDI controller by hooking up your Kawai.

 

[Kaneda]

Yes, I know. The NI S61 already comes packed with a huge number of sounds, enough to keep me busy for quite some time.
I would start off with Garageband or Ableton Live Llite (bundled with the SL61 MK3 should I get that one) so I wouldn't get any extra software immediately.

I've been looking at the bundled software that comes with the NI S61, it's very impressive, and the board seems to be high quality. Just need to do some more research into that DAW integration and third-party plug-ins...

Another question : I've read something about lag between the midi controller and the computer, with or without USB hub. Is that a real issue or is that more dependant of the setup you have (I guess the more devices you hook up, the more you're likely to suffer from lag)...

 

[Biggles]

Latency can be an issue, I had it bad on my very old very slow laptop which is why I returned the controller as I did not want to have to buy a new laptop as well.

Had zero issue on the iMac and that is a late 2014 model.

IPad also worked very well with no issues at all no matter which of about five controllers and eight keyboards have been attached to it.

There are ways to manage latency, this is how on a Mac

Manage input monitoring latency in Logic Pro for Mac – Apple Support (UK)

Set the sample rate of your project and the I/O buffer size, and use Low Latency Mode to minimise the amount of latency (delay) you experience while recording audio or playing software instruments.

support.apple.com

 

[Kaneda]

Ok, thanks. So the main culprit in case of latency would be the computer.
Don't think that'll be a problem, my Macbook is a 2015 model with Core i7 and 16Gb of RAM, iMac from 2017 with 32 Gb of RAM. Seeing as I will use the controller on my desk, I will most likely be using the iMac, gives me some nice screen real estate, and my MP11SE will be right to my desk so no problem hooking that up.

I'm still not sure which controller, though. Have looked at some comparative videos of the three models I have in mind, and seems that the Keylab MK2 is indeed a totally different animal compared to the Keylab Essential. High quality keybed, built like a tank... are just some of the things I've heard about it...
Pity I don't have any possibility of trying them out for myself. Where I live, there are shops that sell the 'regular' keyboards and digital pianos, and they have most of them on display ; they sell MIDI controllers too but there are none on display, and they don't even have any of them in stock, they have to order them.
So trying one out is out of the question

 

[Biggles]

You could always buy each from different suppliers and test them out side by side then return the one(s) that do not meet your exacting standards.

Just remember not to break any seals on software supplied on disc.

BTW, you may find different DAWs are available to test out free for 30 days.

I would probably bite the bullet and get Logic Pro if I had my own Mac.

 

[Kaneda]

I have tried out several DAWs in demo mode (still in the process, actually) : Logic Pro X, Ableton Live (both of which have a 90 day trial period), Reason, Reaper, Studio One, Cubase, FL Studio, Bitwig...
They all offer more or less the same functionality so it basically comes down to user interface and how you interact with it. Didn't like Reaper, Reason and FL Studio one bit ; Studio One and Cubase have a more traditional approach but neither of them could impress me.
Bitwig is interesting (apparently developed by some of the people who used to work on Ableton), and the only one that has an adaptive interface (depending on screen size) but ultimately not my cup of tea.
That leaves Logic Pro and Ableton Live.
I'm already familiar with Garageband and Logic Pro is basically Garageband on steroids. Jam packed with features, easy to work with, very 'Apple' like.
The interface is nice, but a bit 'boring' for lack of a better word, a bit like Cubase pro, in a way.
Ableton Live takes some getting used to, but it's refreshing and just as powerful as Logic, really. So I'll probably end up choosing Ableton, not sure yet.

As for buying all keyboards online and sending back the ones I don't like... I don't know. I guess I could do that, and although I have committed that crime before, it would feel 'pre-meditated' this time...
There's a chain of brick and mortar stores in Belgium (2 of their stores not that far from where I live), but none of them have any of those 3 boards on display, or even in stock, it's all on order. And judging by their website, none of the other stores has it, either.
So, I guess I'll order with Thomann...

 

[3dc]

I have tried out several DAWs in demo mode : Logic Pro X, Ableton Live (both of which have a 90 day trial period), Reason, Reaper, Studio One, Cubase, FL Studio, Bitwig...
They all offer more or less the same functionality so it basically comes down to user interface and how you interact with it. Didn't like Reaper, Reason and FL Studio one bit ; Studio One and Cubase have a more traditional approach but neither of them could impress me.
That leaves Logic Pro and Ableton Live.
I'm already familiar with Garageband and Logic Pro is basically Garageband on steroids. Jam packed with features, easy to work with, very 'Apple' like.
The interface is nice, but a bit 'boring' for lack of a better word, a bit like Cubase pro, in a way.
Ableton Live takes some getting used to, but it's refreshing and just as powerful as Logic, really. So I'll probably end up choosing Ableton, not sure yet.

As for buying all keyboards online and sending back the ones I don't like... I don't know. I guess I could do that, and although I have committed that crime before, it would feel 'pre-meditated' this time...
There's a chain of brick and mortar stores in Belgium (2 of their stores not that far from where I live), but none of them have any of those 3 boards on display, or even in stock, it's all on order. And judging by their website, none of the other stores has it, either.
So, I guess I'll order with Thomann...

Please note:
Ableton Live, Bitwig ( Live clone ) and FL Studio are loop based DAWs while Cubase, ProTools, StudioOne are composers and studio friendly DAWs. Reaper is empty DAW but perfect for band and instrument recording. Logic Pro is mac version of Cubase.

All I am saying Ableton Live might not be your best choice. If you are not into loop based production you will notice that soon I am afraid. If you are on mac your best and native fit is Logic Pro or Garageband.

Just a suggestion to consider.

 

[anotherscott]

As for buying all keyboards online and sending back the ones I don't like... I don't know. I guess I could do that, and although I have committed that crime before, it would feel 'pre-meditated' this time...

When I do that, I try to buy the b-stock/open-box/demo units when available. I don't mind if they're not pristine, plus I save some money, but also it means that, if I return it, the unit goes back to them with the same value it had when it left.

 

[anotherscott]

Please note:
Ableton Live, Bitwig ( Live clone ) and FL Studio are loop based DAWs while Cubase, ProTools, StudioOne are composers and studio friendly DAWs. Reaper is empty DAW but perfect for band and instrument recording. Logic Pro is mac version of Cubase.

All I am saying Ableton Live might not be your best choice. If you are not into loop based production you will notice that soon I am afraid. If you are on mac your best and native fit is Logic Pro or Garageband.

Just a suggestion to consider.

My DAW experience is pretty minimal (all I've ever used is Pro Tools), so that's an interesting distinction that you're pointing out. It seems similar to my understanding that the Montage/MODX/Fantom sequencers are loop-based, whereas Roland FA and Kurzweil are linear, and Korg workstation sequencers can do either. (I've never used any board's on-board sequencer, so again, my perspective here is limited.) Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say "Reaper is empty DAW" and what about it makes it "perfect for band and instrument recording" (and how it differs from Pro Tools/Logic for such recording)?

 

[3dc]

Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say "Reaper is empty DAW" and what about it makes it "perfect for band and instrument recording" (and how it differs from Pro Tools/Logic for such recording)?

Yeah sorry for my Tarzan English.
By empty I mean without any software instruments and sounds. Other than that its a superb DAW. From what I learned its very CPU friendly and latency efficient when setup correctly. Apparently loved by live performing bands and perfect for external instrument recording.

Reaper was actually my first choice but in the end I opted for FL Studio with lifetime free upgrades, 10 software synths and tons of samples and effects.

BTW: I know you have MODX. I wonder if you can remap MODX sliders for use in DAW mixer slider? There is "Link to controller" feature in FL Studio but I am not sure MODX sends midi signal for its knobs and sliders.

 

[anotherscott]

Here's another backing track VST that looks interesting... https://audioplugin.deals/xtyles-by-audiofier/

I wonder if you can remap MODX sliders for use in DAW mixer slider? There is "Link to controller" feature in FL Studio but I am not sure MODX sends midi signal for its knobs and sliders.

I haven't used the DAW functionality of the MODX, but I know the knobs can always send MIDI CC, and the sliders are used in its DAW Remote function.

 

[Kaneda]

Please note:
Ableton Live, Bitwig ( Live clone ) and FL Studio are loop based DAWs while Cubase, ProTools, StudioOne are composers and studio friendly DAWs. Reaper is empty DAW but perfect for band and instrument recording. Logic Pro is mac version of Cubase.

All I am saying Ableton Live might not be your best choice. If you are not into loop based production you will notice that soon I am afraid. If you are on mac your best and native fit is Logic Pro or Garageband.

Just a suggestion to consider.

Wouldn't you say that Ableton offers a bit of both worlds ? There's session view, a more 'innovative' way of working, but there's also arrangement view, which is more 'traditional'.
Would you say that Ableton is not suited for 'normal' genres of music but more for EDM and electronic music ?
That's the word on the street, anyway, but there are many who refute that, saying that Ableton has been somewhat 'pigeonholed' by the type of people using it.
Apparently, Ableton is just as 'able' (no pun intended) as other daws for any type of music, it's just a matter of getting used to it...

 

[3dc]

I was in same position like you just months ago.

Ableton Live is an excellent DAW but it was literally created around session view, live performance, smooth clip transitions and loop based production. Just like FL Studio its ideal for fast song production. Sure it can do everything other DAWs can do but this is what its known for. If that is what you are looking for then go for it.
On the other hand there are features in ProTools, Cubase and Studio One you will not find in Live especially if you intend to work with large sample libraries, orchestration, composition, mixing and mastering. These 3 are much more serious and mature for lack of better words.

I learned that you pick a DAW not on brand but based on your typical music production workflow and OS environment. A perfect fit means less problems and smooth workflow for you.

 

[happyrat1]

Why spend a ton of money when Cakewalk By Bandlab is FREE!!! (as in BEER!!!)

Gary

 

[Kaneda]

Why spend a ton of money when Cakewalk By Bandlab is FREE!!! (as in BEER!!!)

Gary

Cakewalk is Windows-only...
Working with Windows is like playing Chopin’s Fantasy Impromptu on a drum machine
All jokes aside, Cakewalk is not an option, then...

 

[Biggles]

Logic Pro currently has a free 90 day trial period.

So imo it is well worth installing it, connecting up the Kawai and spending time learning how to use the DAW.

If it does not have the range of VSTs required then Mainstage will give 6Gb of them.

Keeping Apple should be less problematic.