When did we become "Arrangerforums.com?"

[immrdave]

I'm sure as hell you're all as pleased as punch with the pretty noises coming out of your yamahahahadoodles but if Yamaha's such a treasure to own then why don't they supply the resources for a user forum for their products?

Out of all the brands I've had to deal with in the last 20 years, Yamaha has been a persistent thorn in my side.

Their treatment of their customers is downright condescending if not simply rude and abrupt.

When I bought my first Sequential synth two years ago I received tech support on a personal and timely and direct basis from a warm and helpful human being at the company.

I've dealt with Roland support as well. Received a few bonus addons for a JD-Xi I've since sold off and ran a Juno DS88 for 3 years with nary a squabble.

Korg I've never actually encountered in support, but while the korgs I've owned have always been sturdy and well designed, but their software is utterly useless if not a serious security risk on your machine. And don't get me started on the 350 page manuals copied in Sanskrit from the original Greek.

Kurzweil >>>. Once upon a time they offered solid, rapid, professional support for exceptional products but the years have taken their toll on business, and sometime around the start of the pandemic they started dropping distributorship throughout the 5 eyes partnership with a precious few remaining like AU and NZ. I can no longer legally purchase a new Kurzweil in Canada. But in the past? Firmware solid as a rock but software farmed out to Soundtower "YUCK". Double Yuck for Korg using them too

M-Audio: - Generally good MIDI compliance and compatibility with their designated musical functions. Some issues directly relative to price of unit have included MIDI timing glitches with underpowered hardware.

Arturia >. The king of controllers and sequencers. Excellent build quality on most of the higher end stuff. Specifically the Keystep and Beatstep stuff. Minus 3 stars for their tacky DRM stinking software and their paranoid registration requirements.


And that kids, is my humble, unvarnished opinon of what this forum is all about.

PS. NOT "What stinking yamaha should I force my kid to play?"

I own a Yamaha Genos. In fact I own two of them. One I keep setup at home, and the other to take out. As with most arrangers, the arranger function can be turned off. Then it functions as a work station including onboard recording, both audio and midi. I personally don't like artificial harsh synth sounds, but they're there if needed. Genos gives me the sounds of live acoustic instruments.
I've actually been on playing jobs where people came from another room looking for the live orchestra. As for Yamaha Support, I have found them to be friendly and helpful the few times I've contacted them. I started learning to play on Hammond Organs. Back then I hauled a console organ and Leslie speaker where ever I played. Now I can get that sound plus a whole orchestra from the Genos. My days of hauling heavy equipment are over. I'm not knocking other keyboards but the Genos is the right keyboard for me. And Merry Christmas to all.

Dave Price

 

[Steve Bolander]

it seems we do attract a lot of newbies here

Ummm . . . . didn't everyone originally start off as a newbie? And, is that really a bad thing? (You and even Happy Rat were actually newbies at one point.)

Just because someone's preference for a particular type of keyboard doesn't precisely match your interests, it doesn't mean a wall has to be built to keep out everyone else. That's kind of an elitist attitude if you ask me.

If an abundance of "which Yamaha arranger do I buy?" new members happen come on board, then you've got the choice of either jumping in with your opinion regarding their questions . . . . or simply ignore their posts altogether.

 

[Steve Bolander]

I like Arranger's, I don't like synths, I like organs, I don't like basic pianos, I like composing, but I don't even understand what a DAW is.

You and I must be twin brothers separated at birth.

 

[LoveLoud]

Ummm . . . . didn't everyone originally start off as a newbie? And, is that really a bad thing? (You and even Happy Rat were actually newbies at one point.)

Just because someone's preference for a particular type of keyboard doesn't precisely match your interests, it doesn't mean a wall has to be built to keep out everyone else. That's kind of an elitist attitude if you ask me.

If an abundance of "which Yamaha arranger do I buy?" new members happen come on board, then you've got the choice of either jumping in with your opinion regarding their questions . . . . or simply ignore their posts altogether.

The solution is for about two of the forums hyperinvested members to ignore noobs for one year. If noob becomes a regular contributor, great. Otherwise, no time invested means no unhappiness.

Equally annoying and unproductive:
noobs who get one answer before quitting AND the amount of META posting about noobs, quitters, wasted efforts, etc.

If any member gets hung up on negative themes, they need to self cleanse and spiritually renew.

Who literally owns this forum? Are they upset?

 

[amwilburn]

As someone in retail, I can tell you simply that we sell more arrangers than synths. By quite a large margin. So that probably tilts things a bit (15-20 years ago, it was pretty much 50/50: we sold as many $$$ worth of synths and workstations as arrangers. But now? The ratio is about 100 to 1!)

But yes the temporary closure of PSRTutorial and the permanent(?) closure of KorgForums would bring a *lot* of new folks here (and elsewhere)

Bouncing: Both Gunnar and I are mods there, too (and hopefully not too self infalted! Hopefully??), and yes I know whom you speak of, but that was definitely a misunderstanding: that person is basically talking themselves into buying a PA5x, and was looking for other members to help convince him. It takes a while for deciding such a large purchase, as you know .

But that's ok! That's the point; it's your choice what to buy, and where to go for advice. Nobody else can tell you otherwise! Reminds me of Xbox gaming: some people whine and complain "oh sure, you have a lot of gamerscore, but look at how few completions you have" or "Oh yeah, your completion rate is 100%, sure, but look at your tiny gamerscore" and to me, to each his own. I have an Xbox gamer friend who was getting stressed and depressed about trying to complete games (some achievements to complete a game are insanely skill/luck/ or grindy (require a ton of time investment), and he was actually becoming *very* stressed and upset to the point where it started to affect his health.

I told him "look, man, I play until it's no longer fun. To each his own. But once it's no longer fun? It's punishment" and he took that to heart, and has been in a much better headspace every since.

"All these new fangled people invading *my* site, I was here first, enjoy music differently, how dare they?".. see what I mean? To each his own

Don't worry Gary, we love your rants! If nothing else, they spark conversations

And keep posting those videos, bud!

Oh, did you see the way the Leafs lost last night??? An own goal, being the GWG (felt bad for em): with the goalie pulled, last minute, the Leafs had a good change to tie it up but the Caps *should* have taken a penalty (but there was no call. I feel a little bit bad for them on that as well). Which of course resulted in a 3-1 empty netter the other way.

I feel a bit bad for them, but it's also kinda funny.

As for Korg vs Yamaha support, you might be surprised to find out: In North America, Yamaha has better product support and warranty (2 yrs Yam vs 1 yr Korg). In Europe, Warranty is the same (5 years! What the heck North America, why don't we get that?!?) but unlike everywhere else in the world, Japanese corporations wish each other *well*, and will actively help each other out to avoid disruptions (Korg went bankrupt in the mid 90s, the Japanese banks couldn't bail them out because they were also strapped for cash... *Yamaha* bailed them out, and bought them out until they could buy their own shares back from Yamaha, which is exactly what happened). Roland did something similar for another brand, but I can't remember which one off the top of my head.


Let's try to be like Japan

Mark

---

www.youtube.com/MarkWilburnTLM/Videos
DX7, CLP300, PSR60, Roland E20 + MT32, CVP309, PSRS970, Fender Std Strat, Squier RB3 Midi Strat, Ibanez SA262, Yamaha CG131, Fujiyama FC390, TUC-Kitty

 

[amwilburn]

As someone in retail, I can tell you simply that we sell more arrangers than synths. By quite a large margin. So that probably tilts things a bit (15-20 years ago, it was pretty much 50/50: we sold as many $$$ worth of synths and workstations as arrangers. But now? The ratio is about 100 to 1!)

But yes the temporary closure of PSRTutorial and the permanent(?) closure of KorgForums would bring a *lot* of new folks here (and elsewhere)

Bouncing: Both Gunnar and I are mods there, too (and hopefully not too self infalted! Hopefully??), and yes I know whom you speak of, but that was definitely a misunderstanding: that person is basically talking themselves into buying a PA5x, and was looking for other members to help convince him. It takes a while for deciding such a large purchase, as you know .

But that's ok! That's the point; it's your choice what to buy, and where to go for advice. Nobody else can tell you otherwise! Reminds me of Xbox gaming: some people whine and complain "oh sure, you have a lot of gamerscore, but look at how few completions you have" or "Oh yeah, your completion rate is 100%, sure, but look at your tiny gamerscore" and to me, to each his own. I have an Xbox gamer friend who was getting stressed and depressed about trying to complete games (some achievements to complete a game are insanely skill/luck/ or grindy (require a ton of time investment), and he was actually becoming *very* stressed and upset to the point where it started to affect his health.

I told him "look, man, I play until it's no longer fun. To each his own. But once it's no longer fun? It's punishment" and he took that to heart, and has been in a much better headspace every since.

"All these new fangled people invading *my* site, I was here first, enjoy music differently, how dare they?".. see what I mean? To each his own

Don't worry Gary, we love your rants! If nothing else, they spark conversations

And keep posting those videos, bud!

Oh, did you see the way the Leafs lost last night??? An own goal, being the GWG (felt bad for em): with the goalie pulled, last minute, the Leafs had a good change to tie it up but the Caps *should* have taken a penalty (but there was no call. I feel a little bit bad for them on that as well). Which of course resulted in a 3-1 empty netter the other way.

I feel a bit bad for them, but it's also kinda funny.

As for Korg vs Yamaha support, you might be surprised to find out: In North America, Yamaha has better product support and warranty (2 yrs Yam vs 1 yr Korg). In Europe, Warranty is the same (5 years! What the heck North America, why don't we get that?!?) but unlike everywhere else in the world, Japanese corporations wish each other *well*, and will actively help each other out to avoid disruptions (Korg went bankrupt in the mid 90s, the Japanese banks couldn't bail them out because they were also strapped for cash... *Yamaha* bailed them out, and bought them out until they could buy their own shares back from Yamaha, which is exactly what happened). Roland did something similar for another brand, but I can't remember which one off the top of my head.


Let's try to be like Japan

Mark

---

www.youtube.com/MarkWilburnTLM/Videos
DX7, CLP300, PSR60, Roland E20 + MT32, CVP309, PSRS970, Fender Std Strat, Squier RB3 Midi Strat, Ibanez SA262, Yamaha CG131, Fujiyama FC390, TUC-Kitty

Leafs had a good *chance* to tie it up. Darn typos

 

[Bouncingogre]

Hi Mark
Just seen your post, and Thanks. Yes I am aware that both you and Gunnar are mods on that other forum, and I have the greatest respect for the two of you.
As you know, I was a PSR SX700 owner, a PSR Performer and posted regularly. I previously played mostly organs, from home organs to big church organs, I helped many, many people on that forum, and continue to offer what help I am able to here.

But I've moved on now. I have no wish to be in conflict with anybody in life, but the attack on me for being disloyal enough to buy a Pa5x over a Yamaha.... primarily due to board failures on both of the Yamaha products, which incidentally caused me a great deal of inconvenience and cost, and feeling that I then needed to justify my decision to buy what he termed (AlmightyKorg) actually really infuriated me.
My money, my choice. A choice that I have no regrets about.

I think the message is quite simple.
RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE'S CHOICES. They may not be Your choices, but we all have different views and interests.

I've drawn a line under it now and moved on. I don't walk backwards.... Life's too short, and I have plenty of new music to compose.
Take care out there guys!

Keith.

 

[Biggles]

There is not really that much choice in Music Forums.

There was and maybe still is a UK based Yamaha Forum where the mod was so stuck up her own ass that nobody elses opinion matter.

Music Player Network is seeking a new owner, if I understand correctly it is hosted by Casio USA but the Casio boss there does not get picky about adverse comments. There are a lot of crass people on that forum, that I would not like to see migrate here.

Korg Forum was hosted by Korg USA now the sceptic in me says they shut it down because of far to many adverse comments about lack of support for products and in part, especially the Pa 5X and zero top end workstation.

 

[Bouncingogre]

I think your scepticism re the Korg Forum is, unfortunately, well founded.

It's a great shame as there was So much useful information there.

Maybe the ones who never found ANYTHING nice to say about Korg, but constantly whined, nitpicked and moaned about everything, should reflect that THEY probably ruined it for Korg players worldwide who actually love our Korgs.

Yeah..... Thanks for that guys!

As we say here in the UK

Never bite the hand that feeds you!
One day it will bite you back!
And it has...........