ADAM Monitor Speakers

[happyrat1]

Correction >>> The Onkyo I use is the TX-8140

Some Amazon Resellers still stock it but it might be discontinued.

https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-8140-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B01AT3G1Z0/

Onkyo TX-8140 2.1-Channel Network Stereo Receiver

Buy Onkyo TX-8140 2.1-Channel Network Stereo Receiver featuring Up to 80W per Channel at 8 Ohms, Built-In Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, DLNA & Internet Music Streaming, Built-In AM/FM with Quick Access Presets, 384 kHz/32-Bit Asahi Kasei AK4452 DAC, Digital Coaxial, Optical, RCA, & USB-In, Dedicated...

www.bhphotovideo.com

It is discontinued and while it is tougher and tougher to buy a 2.1 stereo these days you can still find them among the higher end manufacturers.

Gary

 

[ChrisNabil]

Detailed and very helpful as always Gary. I will have a look around and see what I can get. Much appreciated!

 

[happyrat1]

You're very welcome. When I replaced my aging Quest Speakers with the Klipsch the difference was like night and day. I'd seriously thought I was losing my hearing until I heard these things reproduce every sound perfectly.

Gary

 

[b3maniac]

Why on EARTH would someone want or NEED something that loud in their living room?

Gary, look back at my suggestion which is specific to live performance use, Not living room. Lol. Don

 

[happyrat1]

Gary, look back at my suggestion which is specific to live performance use, Not living room. Lol. Don

To Quote the original post :

B) My need is not to find a perfect "sterile sound" for production but a natural and slightly warmer sound for home use only.

Gary

 

[paulmapp8306]

After about 40 years making music.....

Monitor speakers for the home, PA speakers for rehearsals and the stage.

I have some very nice PA tops (over 1k each) but they sit in the corner at home. used Adam A5Xs with a sub (dont use the sub for mixing, but for playback definitely) then upgraded to Neumann KH120s.

You dont want "warm" as such for home use - similar to hifi - neutral is better. Its not about EQ - but with keyboards specifically, the sound they produce is generally full spectrum anyway.

You also dont need anywhere near the power of volume PA speakers are designed for - NOR are you going to be the distance required from them to sound right. They are designed as medium or long throw - and thats the ideal listening distance. Too close and they sound brittle and harsh.

There are the odd exception, but generally smaller monitor speakers just work much better in the smaller home environment.

Now - in your case 5" speaker ill not cut it. your room is (approx.) 40 m2. You will need 7" or 8" plus a sub - but that should still be enough. PA tops will START to be a solution in that size - but its still not Large - unless you intending to absolutely fill the room with loud sounds Id still go monitors. If yo ARE intending to do that.... different matter.

Hifi speakers - with an amp is an option as has been said - but there not really going to be "warmer". Most speakers for that use tend to have a mid range cut, and possibly a high end and/or low end boost. Its the mid range that gives the "critical listening" in a mix (as its where most of the information is) and the added low end gives the illusion of warmth. a sub with monitors will do the same - if not better. I do have a nice hifi downstairs (getting old now lol, but paid over 1500 for the floor standers some 20 years ago - and use an old arcam pre and power amp from the same era). My preference is still the monitors and sub for live instruments.

 

[ChrisNabil]

What great advice Paul, many thanks! I am very tempted to go down the HiFi route but really don't like the idea of having to buy an amp. Gary gave me some very good advice also and I am trying to shop around. With playing the piano I think like you say a sub is essential for the low end. I have had monitors before. Yamaha HS7's actually with a sub and it sounded great but there was just something lacking. I have heard the Yamaha's are very flat and although great for production/mixing are not that wonderful for listening to.

I think I might take the time to go to an audio store and hear some for myself.

Thanks again!

Chris

 

[paulmapp8306]

The Yam HS series are decent..... for the money. There lower tier speaker. Its not that their "neutral" as such - but they are a bit harsh to my ears. I do like the HS subs mind, but the tops.... not for me. The mid range is "spikey" rather than "transparent (like the Neumann, Dynaudios and Adams are) and the top end is quite harsh. They do a job for the money.

The Adams are a step up - and if anything there flatter -BUT there not harsh. The midrange is revealing but not fatiguing (the HSs are to my ears). The top end is smoother - not really warmer BUT ribbon tweakers go a lot higher in freq response, and they do have a sweater tone up there because of it. Id be more than happy to listen to music for pleasure with the Adams....not with the Hs's

There are other monitors in the same price range (ish) that are also great. The Dynaudio LDYs are nice (they do an 8" and a 7" - as do the Adam Ax range). Better than those 2 though and your into serious money (the 3 way Neumann and Dynaudios and larger Genelecs).

Id see if you can get somewhere that stock both the Adams and Dynaudios - try both 7" and 8" versions with a sub (any sub really - probably 10" in your size room. The HS is an 8 " and fine for my smaller room).

 

[ChrisNabil]

Great help, thank you, Paul. I am glad to hear that I wasn't completely wrong about the Yamaha's. I feel that I am just too picky lol. I find it very surprising that no company has come out with speakers especially for keyboards or synths/workstations. Not everyone out there buys keyboards for music production or uses monitors just for mixing.

I have spent hours on youtube looking at monitors but there is not one that mentions monitors in conjunction with keyboards...

If I am spending $4000 - $6000 or upwards for a really nice rig I need to get the best quality speakers to justify spending so much on a board that has really good sounds otherwise what is the point!

 

[paulmapp8306]

The reason is that keyboards are full range instruments, so you need full range speakers. Simple as that. Any monitor speaker (with sub normally), any PA speaker (in large rooms) or hifi set up is perfectly fine for keyboards. There is no market for a product specifically for keyboards.

Back in the day (and still available) are some STAGE Keyboard amps (designed to be our equivalent of a guitarist combo) BUT that market doesnt really exist any more since the advent of Powered PA tops (they came from a time when PAs were passive cabs and a power amp).

It really is that simple. for large rooms and big volume - Powered PA tops and for smaller rooms and lower volume studio monitors. 99.9% of keys players use one or the other.

Be free to be picky lol - I am....... A good balanced pair of studio monitors that provide the volume you need for the room size, with a sub for low end is what you need. Im more than happy to listen to music for pleasure, run my gaming rug though, produce my keys and record/mix on my monitors. Couldnt do it on the Yam HSs - couldnt do it on KRKs, couldnt do it on a lot of the other "cheaper" monitors BUT once you hit the mid tier offerings (the Adam AXs are the lowest level Id go for my needs and my picky-ness). Larger rooms like yours need larger speakers and that does push up the cost for decent quality (and 3 ways wopuld be better in that space) - but there are options without breaking the bank.

Ive built my rig over the last 3 years - coming it at aprox £10,000 (or about $13500) and Im more than happy with studio monitors and a sub.

 

[happyrat1]

If I might offer a momentary interjection. From a technical standpoint, a quality home stereo amp and speakers are ideal for providing an accurate rendition of ALL instruments, recorded or otherwise, in a home environment.

They are generally flat along the entire audio spectrum and can be colored using EQ fairly easily.

And I stand by my assessment. The rig I described reveals nuances and overtones which no basic monitor setup that I have heard can equal.

A good quality home stereo setup reveals all sounds, warts and all in your recordings.

If you want a good idea of what you are putting out sounds like to a devoted listener, then you have to have a rig worthy of the instruments.

Gary

 

[paulmapp8306]

If I might offer a momentary interjection. From a technical standpoint, a quality home stereo amp and speakers are ideal for providing an accurate rendition of ALL instruments, recorded or otherwise, in a home environment.

They are generally flat along the entire audio spectrum and can be colored using EQ fairly easily.

And I stand by my assessment. The rig I described reveals nuances and overtones which no basic monitor setup that I have heard can equal.

A good quality home stereo setup reveals all sounds, warts and all in your recordings.

If you want a good idea of what you are putting out sounds like to a devoted listener, then you have to have a rig worthy of the instruments.

Gary

Oh I agree. a quality Hifi is designed specifically to do this. My keys through my quality separates and decent floor standers sounds great BUT...... its a lot more expensive than my Neumann monitors lol.

If I was purely playing at home, and not mixing/recording at all, and had my keys in the same place as I relax to listen to music - thats what I would probably do. But its not practical for me, or for most I know (because you dont do the two things in the same space normally).

I always test any recording/mix I do in 3 ways. My Car, my phone (with in ears) and my main stereo. If it doesnt sound good on them all - its not a good mix. The hifi reveals most in the midranges - the high end - the stereo field and phasing problems, the phone normally shows if theres too much low end which tends to be hyped with in ears, and the car shows what things are like on more traditional "stereo" systems that are harsher/less refined..

 

[happyrat1]

Oh I agree. a quality Hifi is designed specifically to do this. My keys through my quality separates and decent floor standers sounds great BUT...... its a lot more expensive than my Neumann monitors lol.

If I was purely playing at home, and not mixing/recording at all, and had my keys in the same place as I relax to listen to music - thats what I would probably do. But its not practical for me, or for most I know (because you dont do the two things in the same space normally).

I always test any recording/mix I do in 3 ways. My Car, my phone (with in ears) and my main stereo. If it doesnt sound good on them all - its not a good mix. The hifi reveals most in the midranges - the high end - the stereo field and phasing problems, the phone normally shows if theres too much low end which tends to be hyped with in ears, and the car shows what things are like on more traditional "stereo" systems that are harsher/less refined..

That's why I now have 2 studios in my apartment.

A minimalist recording setup with a Juno DS88 in the living room where I can keep in practice and record the MIDI keystrokes, and then the full blown rig in the spare bedroom where I record the final mixdown.

With a couple of mixers, a computer or two and some imaginative cabling it becomes quite the hydra but an incredibly versatile home entertainment center.

I've been meaning to post updated pics and flowcharts to the gear pics thread for some time now but have currently been wrapped up in upgrading all the computers to more RAM and SSD storage and the latest operating systems so they really aren't in a state to be photographed right now.

Gary

 

[Biggles]

You could always go for a PAAS for home use with a 4X and even if a new model comes along there will be a similar if not the same system available

I have heard one being used in a showroom whicg was considerably larger than your 450 ft2 room and it was plenty loud enough

 

[ChrisNabil]

The reason is that keyboards are full range instruments, so you need full range speakers. Simple as that. Any monitor speaker (with sub normally), any PA speaker (in large rooms) or hifi set up is perfectly fine for keyboards. There is no market for a product specifically for keyboards.

Back in the day (and still available) are some STAGE Keyboard amps (designed to be our equivalent of a guitarist combo) BUT that market doesnt really exist any more since the advent of Powered PA tops (they came from a time when PAs were passive cabs and a power amp).

It really is that simple. for large rooms and big volume - Powered PA tops and for smaller rooms and lower volume studio monitors. 99.9% of keys players use one or the other.

Be free to be picky lol - I am....... A good balanced pair of studio monitors that provide the volume you need for the room size, with a sub for low end is what you need. Im more than happy to listen to music for pleasure, run my gaming rug though, produce my keys and record/mix on my monitors. Couldnt do it on the Yam HSs - couldnt do it on KRKs, couldnt do it on a lot of the other "cheaper" monitors BUT once you hit the mid tier offerings (the Adam AXs are the lowest level Id go for my needs and my picky-ness). Larger rooms like yours need larger speakers and that does push up the cost for decent quality (and 3 ways wopuld be better in that space) - but there are options without breaking the bank.

Ive built my rig over the last 3 years - coming it at aprox £10,000 (or about $13500) and Im more than happy with studio monitors and a sub.

A lot of food for thought there Paul! I understand what you are saying. It can be a bit discouraging when you feel you need to be a sound engineer to understand the basics in order to play and enjoy your keyboard(s)

I don't really know what my end goal is in regards to music but I think there is no sense in buying something cheap to then have to upgrade in the future. If I did go for the ADAM A7X or A8X with a sub like the ADAM Sub10 MkII it looks like it would cost a total of about $2200 - $2500, I am fine with that.

I am still on the fence as regards using passive speakers with an amp... it might sound silly but with my very limited understanding of such things it puts me off that I would have to buy another piece of equipment and also another learning curve. It seems that you either have an aptitude for such things or you don't or at least it comes easier to some than others.

I envy you guys that can talk in detail about all this technical stuff lol...

 

[ChrisNabil]

Gary - Your knowledge and help are always gratefully appreciated! I think the only way I am going to know what is best for me is to go to an audio store and have a listen... I have had many bad experiences selling gear on Reverb to be told by the buyer it came damaged lol
Every time I sell something that is not right for me I end up selling for a loss and then having shipping problems to the new owner.

 

[happyrat1]

If you are buying a quality piece of home audio equipment (ie. Name Brand : Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, Klipsch, Mission, Bose, NOT F*CKING SONY or SAMSUNG) it honestly should last you at least two decades if not longer.

The tricky part is finding an actual 2.1 channel unit these days.

Everyone is pushing 5.1 and 7.1 home theater setups these days that would bankrupt you in speakers.

Seriously, unless you're buying a cheezy all in one unit, you should be able to walk into a better class stereo shop and walk out with a decent setup that could do the job of voicing the keyboard as well as entertaining the family. You don't need more than 80 Watts per channel for home use. That provides enough dynamic headroom at reasonable listening levels that you don't start clipping the signal when a cymbal crashes or a THX commercial goes extremely loud. Distortion numbers these days on good equipment is typically 0.005% (half a hundredth of a percent) or in that neighbourhood and pretty much all amps sound equally good with those numbers. Speakers are the weakest link in any audio chain with numbers typically around 1% or 2%. The only way to possibly get better numbers is to buy laboratory reference speakers. (Mucho Bux!!!)

If you want to be able to play music on a tuner or CD while playing your keyboard at the same time, you need a receiver or integrated amp with a tape monitor function. Nobody uses tape any more but this will allow you to connect your keyboard thru a small mixer as well as your computer and the stereo's programming all thru the same input on the amp and control individual levels independently with the mixer.

If you simply plug the keyboard into the aux input then you wouldn't be able to play along with a CD or other program unless you fed it thru the mixer built into the keyboard. Line levels are the same for professional keyboards, drum machines and modules as they are for home stereo equipment. All that is required is the proper cable or adapter to connect pro audio gear to a home unit.

A decent home stereo that would bring Carneghie Hall to your living room should be doable for about $1000 USD all in.

I lean toward the Klipsch because I recently acquired mine and have noticed the clarity and improvement first hand as well as because they are currently easily available and at a great price as well if you take advantage of one of Best Buy's never ending sales.

The decision is up to you but as your setup evolves and you start looking to record and play back with true fidelity, you pretty much HAVE to become a DIY audio engineer

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, when I sell used gear I refuse to ship it anywhere. I find within a month or two I can always find a buyer for even the most expensive gear on the local Craigslist and Kijiji classified websites.

I always have the buyer do his own tests before he walks out with the equipment.

I've never had anything ever come back.

All sales are final

Gary

 

[ChrisNabil]

Thanks for all the info Gary very much appreciated! I made the mistake of selling my Montage 88 key to someone and shipped it by UPS. It had all its original packaging and when I shipped it I actually put extra material around the board to protect it so I actually shipped it with more padding than it was shipped to me by Sweetwater. When the buyer received it it was damaged!... Big dent near the lower keys as well as 4 other keys not working. I was so lucky that I insured it with Reverb and they paid for repairs and the customer was happy in the end.

That is not something I will do again I tell you, lesson learned!

I get what you are saying about Hifi Vs other options. To be honest, the room I use for my music equipment is never going to be a treated room. It's a sunroom with floor to ceiling glass doors and panels along one side so fairly limited although I have blocked out many of the glass panels mainly due to the heat here in Phoenix AZ. I want to get a good air conditioning unit in there before this summer!

I am going to look around for a good audio store near me. I have a guitar city but don't know what they will have in stock. I went there a few months back when I was looking to buy my Kawaii MP11se and they were not very helpful at all. Actually, the guy that "helped" me was a waste of space.

As we all know since COVID everything is hard and we all need an outlet. We can't do anything much at the moment so I have made a plan to get fit and get my rig/audio sorted, or at least get an idea of what direction I want to go in... its all fun!

 

[happyrat1]

I am going to look around for a good audio store near me. I have a guitar city but don't know what they will have in stock. I went there a few months back when I was looking to buy my Kawaii MP11se and they were not very helpful at all. Actually, the guy that "helped" me was a waste of space.

As we all know since COVID everything is hard and we all need an outlet. We can't do anything much at the moment so I have made a plan to get fit and get my rig/audio sorted, or at least get an idea of what direction I want to go in... its all fun!

Since we're all imprisoned by house arrest, I take my lead from the hardened career criminals and also began pumping iron the day I arrived, while seeking out the biggest, meanest, ugliest guy I could see and sucker-punching him to avoid becoming somebody's bitch

To be honest, I've learned by adaptation to my two bedroom apt that living spaces can be flexible and utilitarian at the same time.

While the original plan was to keep the music and the living areas separate, it's actually sort of morphed like the Blob to sprawl into the no man's land between the solarium, the living area and dining area, all the while the main studio stayed in the guest bedroom.

Now I'm looking at ways to network the two.

It all started out innocently enough. I bought a Juno DS61 for $899 and set it up with an X stand (just for practice ) that got traded in for a DS88 all, simply so I could get some keyboard time without going through a ten minute procedure to fire up the main studio. Then I added a second tier, added an organ module and a synth module. Then I added some drum pads and a drum machine and then I added a pair of bongos and a steel tongue drum, all along the imaginary dividing line between my living room and my dining room.

Now I'm finding it more comfortable to play in the living room than the bedroom.

This is why I'm playing now with the idea of networking the two, or at least using the Juno for musical sketches and the kurzweil for the final product.

If you can afford to indulge your dark side, it's amazing how a hobby can grow to obsessive extremes.

Gary