How to make a hit song?

[Alchemy]

About 25% of these are Australian hits, but the point is well made.

I don't think Toto's Africa fits in there. It's the Am,F,C,G type progression but same chords yes. That's another topic I would love to get into. I've been obsessed with that progression since the late 70's.. Surprisingly, it's become very popular today. I only know a small handful of songs in that pattern until recent years. I've often wondered what it's evolution was. The oldest I know is actually in an old western song that one wouldn't readily associate with it. I almost missed it myself.

 

[Alchemy]

"Forget these crazy dreams of stardom son. It's time to marry a nice girl settle down, sell insurance and join the local Shriners' Club..."

The famous words of every father of every generation

Gary

The all American matrix.

 

[Alchemy]

BTW, there were a lot of cases of copyright infringement back in the 80's and 90's.

Most of them involved sampled music snippets by dance and rap artists, but one of the most famous involved George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" and its uncanny resemblance to the Chiffons' "He's So Fine."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Sweet_Lord

Harrison was found to have subconsciously plagiarised the song without even realizing it.

The point is it was a legal battle between record labels. I strongly suspect neither party registered copyright until the recording companies published them.

Gary

great stuff, my mind is exploding. One of my favorite originals was done almost exactly later by avenged sevenfold in warmness of the soul. I did my version in the early 90's and had it professionally recorded by a guy who moved to CA right where they were. I have to wonder. Mine even had that same odd, seemingly out of place, G, F# dropdown. Still, after years, I realized I had to have SUBCONCIOUSLY got that progression from Boston "peace of mind" and especially hearts "alone" and "what about love" that you could not keep from hearing somewhere then. Although I loved heart before, those songs were kinda "girly" so I never directly listened. I guess they got into me anyway They are great songs I admit.

 

[Alchemy]

I never knew about the my sweet lord suit. That wiki article is a good read. I have to agree in the least that the 3/4 judgment was harsh and I totally agree with the defense who said there were several significant things of difference that the judge did not consider. I would also add one, "how much were the chiffons harmed by it - in reality?" I also disagree at a fundamental level. In my opinion My Sweet Lord is different enough to be it's own song. To have the position formally that it should have never existed is like saying a species of animal should have never existed. Both songs are great works of art and neither should have been kept from the world.

 

[happyrat1]

To be fair, large portions of the melody were lifted note by note and Harrison, rather than admitting wrongdoing fought the case in appeals court for 5 years so I can see the damages awarded being justified as being punitive.

Also it marked a point in history where an industry giant tried its best to squash a minor artist with money and lawyers and appeals and the little guys ended up winning a victory.

And the prize was no small potatoes either. The single sold over 5 million copies and was one of the best selling singles of all time.

Personally, in this case, I think justice was properly served.

Gary

 

[Alchemy]

Without reading again, If I recall correctly, he did admit that the song probably did subconsciously influence him and that was what the judge cited as a main part of decision that he did infringe. His own admission is what sealed it according to the judge. The judge however ignored what went with his admission and the fact that there were significant differences that were unique to George. To me those differences show it was far from a willful plagiarism and that the chiffons song was only a partial influence. Still, a lawsuit is not supposed to be about "punishment." It's supposed to be about reimbursement of damages and expenses.
I do have to say that you brilliantly did add to the topic with this story and example. It reminds that the bar is very high to avoid plagiarism even if it is higher than I think it should be. It does seem to vary a lot though in various cases. How might it apply to my "riff?" I'm not sure but it does scare me more. Initially I thought I'd first let a few friends hear it for this very purpose and others. Maybe a friend will knock it right off the pedestal saying "that kinda sounds like...." I admit that I was placing some of it's uniqueness on the instrument sound, the acoustics, the style, and the note timing. In that respect I think it will be hard not to be unique. If I ever heard anything close to it I would have latched on and thought WOW and listened to it over and over. But, could it match someones plain sound and straight chords? Easily so maybe but I can't place anything right now.
Just for the record, I never thought "hit song" like this from one of my riffs as much as that screamed at me on this one. I seldom like using bold terms like that about anything. There was a little humor in it for this thread I admit but I wasn't joking either.
As for "what crowd" as someone asked. I already asked myself that as I listened. It has some *80's ish eerie rock ballad" feel to it but also some new age and definitely would jump into modern pop. It sounds very natural yet slightly alien and as I listen I hear a lyrical style that the youngest generation would just fall over for. I think it would hit the youngest first and then expand extremely wide and become a fixture over time.
But then I think Phoebe thought all that too.
No, really there is something to be said for her. I remember some of the first stuff I came up with could have been on one of her albums. I'd like to think I'm far beyond that now, but

 

[Rayblewit]

LOL . . . that girl is so funny!
I have never ever watched "friends"
But that clip made me laugh.

 

[Oriane Lima]

And,

Jorge Ben Jor released this song in 1977 on LP(longplay) Tropical, at Seal Island Records / Phonogram 1977. Do Ya Think I'm Sexy (Rod Stewart) released this song in December 1978.!?!?!?!?


Rod, aware of the critical derision that greeted “Da Ya Think I’m Sexy?” — and he suffered his own regrets after he, Appice, and Hitchings were taken to court by Brazilian artist Jorge Ben Jor, who accused the trio of plagiarizing his song “Taj Mahal.”
“It was only a pop record, but you’d have thought I’d poisoned the water supply,” sighed Stewart, who admitted, “It didn’t help that the marketing campaign for the single had me stretched out in full Spandex-clad glory beneath the slogan ‘Da Ya Think I’m Sexy?'” Of the trial, Stewart wrote, “I held my hand up straight away. Not that I’d stood in the studio and said, ‘Here, I know we’ll use that tune from “Taj Mahal” as the chorus. The writer lives in Brazil, so he’ll never find out.’ Clearly the melody had lodged itself in my memory and then resurfaced. Unconscious plagiarism, plain and simple. I handed over the royalties, again wondering whether ‘Da Ya Think I’m Sexy?’ was partly cursed.”
Perhaps the only clear winner in the saga was blues legend Taj Mahal, who had a bit of fun with the whole thing by recording a song with the same riff, which he titled “Jorge Ben.”

 

[Alchemy]

I remember back in the day thinking Stewart lost it with that one kinda like Styx with Mr Roboto later.

 

[Rayblewit]

Jorge Ben Jor released this song in 1977 on LP(longplay) Tropical, at Seal Island Records / Phonogram 1977. Do Ya Think I'm Sexy (Rod Stewart) released this song in December 1978.!?!?!?!?


I never knew this
Rod was already a rich man in the 70's so passing back the royalties was very charitable of him.
Never heard of ben jor before. I like this song. Can't understand the words but great music. You have got me searching for more ben jor. Thanks oriane.

 

[Oriane Lima]

Ray, it was a relatively short time, to oblivion, in my opinion. I also think it was not an act of charity, since the problem was going on in the courts. Perhaps he, wanted to stay as a good guy, in the middle of the music world and agreed to make a deal. Here, everyone knew that. The years passed, and now they are good friends.

As for the letter, it is a gorgeously masterpiece poetry (rsrsrs) Although the story has passed this way, as candidly told in the lyrics, the Indian prince really built the Taj Mahal for his beloved princess

Taj Mahal

It was the most Beautiful
History of love
Someoane told me
And now I will tell you

The Love of the prince
Shah-Jehan by Princess
Mumtaz Mahal

The Love of the prince
Shah-Jehan by Princess
Nil Mahal ...

Té Té Té, Tétéreté
Té Té, Tétéreté
Té Té, Tétéreté
Té Té ...

Taj Mahal (4x)

Té Té, Tétéreté
Té Té, Tétéreté
Té Té, Tétéreté
Té Té ...

Taj Mahal (4x)

Uhou! Uhou!
Té Té, Tétéreté
Té Té, Tétéreté
Té Té, Tétéreté
Té Té ... (2x)

And repeats.

 

[CowboyNQ]

If you guys are interested in studying musical copyright infringement, you can look far more recently into history. Google "Led Zeppelin v Taurus" or "Pharrell v Marvin Gaye". Both of these cases wound up in the last 18 months.

 

[Alchemy]

I knew about the zeppelin one but not in much detail and I did hear the song allegedly plagiarized and my impression was similar to these other examples brought up. The issue is very perplexing to me. I don't like seeing people punished for accidents but then someone needs to pay costs and damages if there is any. I don't know how much distinction they make between music and material inventions but there should be one, imo. To me, music is like air or a spirit that cannot be truly owned but I have to respect that people have often put a lot of money, time, and maybe even much of their life into a song. That's not even mentioning that a song could be like your child and if it's taken away it can hurt.

 

[Alchemy]

I've got to mention btw, that after I made that joking remark and video link to explain potential "Phoebe syndrome" I listened to my recording again and I was ashamed to have joked about it. No, this thing sounds really awesome to me and "it's alive" and real. It creates it's own new worlds when I'm gone, lol

 

[Alchemy]

I don't think Toto's Africa fits in there. It's the Am,F,C,G type progression.

WOW! How have I missed this? And all these years? Paul you should have said something. I was watching various axis of awesome videos since I loved that one you posted. I ran across what I guess is the official version of "4 Chords" and I again considered how they got Africa in there. Stupid me! Oh my! Why couldn't I ever see C, G, Am, F out of Am, F, C, G? Crazy. This rocks my world, lol. Now I'm going to have to see what songs are FCGAm and GAmFC that I thought were totally different too

 

[Fred Coulter]

I'll just toss out there that there's been some research that shows that strong copyright law actually hurts musical development. The best example is comparing baroque England with Germany. England had strong copyright laws, while Germany did not. Germany produced far more great music than England.

Of course, this is just one example. And I don't remember Bach becoming anywhere near as rich as Handel. But the question is whether you care about the individual or the society. And in this case, they appear to have different outcomes.

 

[Alchemy]

For some reason this is making me keep thinking of the neighbor kids I let beat on the keys. I love watching kids playing without any schooling at all. SNL needs a skit where swat busts in on a kid doodling on the piano for plagiarism.

 

[Alchemy]

About 25% of these are Australian hits, but the point is well made.

btw Paul, you hit the nail on the head. It is indeed 4 chords, at least the main riff. Maybe that's how I knew it was a hit without knowing the 4 chord phenomenone yet .