Second keyboard...

[Kaneda]

In another thread, I'm discussing replacing the stand I bought together with my Roland FA-08 :

Extension or second stand for second keyboard ?

I bought a Innox KB Fold stand for my Roland FA-08. Suppose I want to add a 61 key keyboard later on to my setup, what would be the best way to do it ? Are there any extensions available for the stand I bought ? Given the design of the stand, I could always buy a second one later and just...

www.keyboardforums.com

Since I can still return the stand at no cost, it might be wiser to invest in a stand that can take 2 keyboards, should I decide to purchase a second keyboard later on.
But, in that same capacity, I'm also already thinking about what kind of keyboard I would add to the 'equation'.

My Roland FA-08 has 88 keys, so obviously, the second one wouldn't need to have that many keys, and I believe a 61 key board would be perfect.
Do I stay with Roland, or maybe it's wiser to get another brand in order to experience some different sounds.
I took the liberty of comparing a few keyboards, not too expensive, and ended up comparing two, the Korg Kross 2 and the Roland Juno DS61, both costing the same.
The Juno, of course, is very similar to my FA-08, so the Kross 2 might be a better option.
As far as the choice for a DAW is concerned, I've decided to go with Logic Pro X, since it's essentially Garageband on steroids, which works really really well for me. But can I hook up two different keyboards to one DAW, to different channels ? Any links where I can find some information ?

 

[Biggles]

I played both a Juno and Kross side by side a couple of times before ai chose the Korg but I hasten to add that I only choose the Korg because it was smaller and far lighter which was just what I wanted for taking to jam sessions.

Performance between the two was very similar but as you now have a Roland then the Juno would make life easier for you as the operating systems are very different.

As usual I suggest you go and play both after first looking at the Video Tutorials that each company have made for each.

That said I would not be in a hurry to buy another keyboard, you have a lot to learn with your FA as it is.

 

[happyrat1]

My advice for a second keyboard is not to buy another ROMpler. At this point you should be looking at a VA or Analog synth to complement the sounds of the Roland.

Suggestions include:

Dave Smith Prophet 6 or 12

Behringer Deepmind 12

Moog One

Access Virus T1

Studiologic Sledge V2.1

Waldorf Blofeld


A full range of sounds and prices for you to choose from.

Gary

 

[Kaneda]

I played both a Juno and Kross side by side a couple of times before ai chose the Korg but I hasten to add that I only choose the Korg because it was smaller and far lighter which was just what I wanted for taking to jam sessions.

Performance between the two was very similar but as you now have a Roland then the Juno would make life easier for you as the operating systems are very different.

As usual I suggest you go and play both after first looking at the Video Tutorials that each company have made for each.

That said I would not be in a hurry to buy another keyboard, you have a lot to learn with your FA as it is.

I've watched some videos on both the Kross 2 and the Juno DS61 and it's true that the user interface on the Kross isn't all that intuitive. Might not be unwise to go for the Juno. The Yamaha MX61 doesn't really appeal to me (as I recall, the menu system on both my DX21 and V50 back in the day weren't all that intuitive, either, although granted, the technology at the time didn't really allow for much more).

The boards that @happyrat1 suggested aren't really my cup of tea, since I'm not that much of a sound tweaker/purist... And I like the approach of my FA-08 and the Juno DS61 is awfully close to that (as is the Korg Kross 2, of course).

Not in the market for a second keyboard yet, just got my first one, but as I'm in the process of moving, I'm also setting up a home office/studio, sort of like 'man cave' where I can just 'chill' and do my thing. And a second keyboard would complete that.
Plus the fact that I wouldn't have to 're-learn' everything between the FA-08 and the Juno DS61.

Oh, and did I tell you I'm impatient, too?

 

[Kaneda]

To be frank, there is one particular song that I have been wanting to be able to play for nearly 30 years, but I've never had the equipment for it (or rather, haven't been able to afford it).
It's a different matter now, and I still absolutely want to reach that goal, I have to prove to myself that I can do it. With 2 keyboards and Logic Pro X as my DAW, I am confident I will be able to achieve it.

Call me crazy or overambitious, but it means a lot to me.
This is the song :

Tell me if you think I'm crazy...

 

[MikeyParent]

It would help us all greatly if you can articulate what is driving your need/desire for a second board? Requirements?

 

[Biggles]

I would also consider a straightforward MIDI controller keyboard for use with your iMac.

I prefer to use my Arturia Keylab Essential with the DAW that I have on my
PC but I have connected it to my Wife’s iMac and it works well with Garage Band (we do not have Logic which at £200 it is a bit much for occasional use)

 

[happyrat1]

I just listened to that Rocky Montage.

There's a lot of synth sound FX in there.

You really might want to reconsider buying a VA or Analog synth to be able to create those sounds.

The rest of the orchestral and instrumental sounds can be programmed into splits and layers on a single keyboard switchable with a pedal click.

If you're using a DAW to record multitrack there's really no need for more than a single ROMpler in your studio.

Gary

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I don't think anyone answered your DAW question yet, so...

Yes, you shouldn't have any trouble connecting two or more keyboards to a DAW.

However, your computer's OS may have a limit on the maximum number of MIDI devices you can connect at once. For instance, I think Windows has a limit of 10 MIDI IN ports and 10 MIDI OUT ports, and one of those MIDI OUT ports is used by the built-in Windows soft synth. Note that some keyboards have multiple sets of MIDI ports, such as MIDI A IN and MIDI A OUT, plus MIDI B IN and MIDI B OUT. Thus, the maximum number of MIDI ports doesn't necessarily equal the number of keyboards you're connecting.

Also, the maximum number of MIDI tracks you can use at once usually varies from DAW to DAW, or even between different editions of a given DAW. This isn't the same as the number of MIDI ports, because you can set up more than one track at a time for each port.

Anyway, each of your MIDI keyboards will normally have its own MIDI IN and MIDI OUT ports, and each port has its own set of 16 MIDI channels which are separate from the 16 MIDI channels on some other port. Thus, keyboard A and the DAW can communicate on channel 1, and keyboard B and the DAW can communicate on channel 1 as well, and there won't be any conflict between them.

But that could also depend on whether you have two or more keyboards daisy chained together and connected to the computer via a single pair of MIDI IN and MIDI OUT ports.

 

[Kaneda]

I have the FA-08 connected through USB to my Mac, using Garageband for the moment. I would connect the second keyboard through USB as well. Don’t think Garageband supports more than one keyboard, though, will have to step up to Logic for that...

 

[Kaneda]

Also, as @Biggles suggested, going for the Juno DS61 would make life easier for me, since I already have a FA-08, so I wouldn't have to learn to use to different interfaces.
On the other hand, adding a DS61 to the FA-08 would give me more or less the same sounds, creating some sort of redundancy between the two synths (I assume that everything that's in the DS61, is already in the FA-08).

So, wouldn't it be better to go for another brand, in order to have access to different, and thus, more sounds ?

 

[SeaGtGruff]

That's a personal decision-- some people do like to stick with what they know and like-- but whenever I catch a glimpse of a famous keyboardist's rig during a live show, he or she almost always has a variety of keyboards from a number of different manufacturers. Maybe they're onto something?

 

[Biggles]

I certainly like my Korg Kross 2, it is my second Korg and the menu system between the two models is very different.

Learning the Korg via the manual is a but like learning Klingon, but once learned navigation is easy and the degree of customisation on on individual Programs (Korg speak for a single instrument sound) or Combi’s (you can probably guess at what these are) is very extensive.

Have a look at the Korg instructional video series for gaining an idea of how the various features work

 

[anotherscott]

(I assume that everything that's in the DS61, is already in the FA-08).

No... the non-expansion-slot sound set in the DS is at least 128 mb (mabe 256?) derived from the Fantom series; whereas the ones in the FA are the 64 mb sound set from the older XV-5080 plus a set of SuperNatural sounds (piano, EPs, clav, basses, acoustic guitar, ensemble strings, tonewheel organ, VA synth). The DS also allow you to put 3 insert effects on a single sound (FA only supports 1, BUT you can put effects on up to 16 split/layered/sequenced sounds simultaneously). DS also allows you to load in custom samples that can be stretched and played across the keyboard, which you cannot do on the FA. The DS also allows you to switch between Performances (its equivalent to Studio Sets) without having held sounds drop out. There are also other DS features that are not in the FA, including additional vocal processing, better real-time controls for adjusting the volumes/octaves of each sound of a 2-way split, and a few other things.

 

[Kaneda]

@anotherscott You make it sound as though I should have gone for the Juno DS 88 instead of the FA-08

 

[anotherscott]

Both are cool boards, but there's a lot less overlap than people often think! I suspect they were designed by two different teams, who basically only shared chassis components (the actions, buttons, knobs, pads, etc.). Many different philosophies. Like the pads on the DS can play sound files off a USB stick, but cannot directly trigger saved samples, while the pads on the FA can directly trigger saved samples but cannot directly play sound files off a USB stick. Go figure. While I listed some DS advantages over the FA, the FA certainly has advantages of its own, like the sequencer, 16-zone MIDI control, the big color screen, drawbar-adjustable organ, and the assignable sub out (which makes it easy to put a better rotary effect on that organ, among other things).

Anyway, to get back to the main question, there are numerous boards you could consider to complement the FA, but if you like the DS, I wouldn't worry about it duplicating too much, it really has lots of sounds that are not in the FA.

 

[Kaneda]

The DS seemed like the obvious choice, but I guess you can’t go wrong with the Korg Kross 2, either, as they’re both more or less evenly matched.

But what about this :

Does this mean that the sound samples are exclusive to one keyboard ? I.e. the Juno sounds cannot be used on the FA and vice versa ?
On the other hand, I’m sure the Kross 2 has its own sound library, ready to be downloaded.
The axial site for Roland is really nice. Does Korg has something similar ?

 

[anotherscott]

The DS seemed like the obvious choice, but I guess you can’t go wrong with the Korg Kross 2, either, as they’re both more or less evenly matched.

To me, the biggest advantages of the Kross over the DS are the sequencer and 16-zone MIDI control, though in your case, the FA also gives you those things. I preferred the DS to the Kross mostly for more seamless sound transitions when switching sounds, and more real-time control for splits/layers. And I liked the idea of loading custom samples, though I haven't done it. But they're both good boards, it depends on what sounds, features, and operational ergonomics you prefer.

Does this mean that the sound samples are exclusive to one keyboard ? I.e. the Juno sounds cannot be used on the FA and vice versa ?

Right. As I've been saying, the sound sets in the board are different, as are the effects capabilities and numerous other aspects of the architecture... so patches for one are incompatible with patches for the other. That doesn't mean you might not be able to create similar sounds on the two. That video you posted demonstrates FA patches for he first 7 minutes, and then DS patches. Whether that pack actually includes FA and DS versions of each of those sounds, you'd have to ask him.

On the other hand, I’m sure the Kross 2 has its own sound library, ready to be downloaded.
The axial site for Roland is really nice. Does Korg has something similar ?

Unfortunately, no and no. When the Kross 2 came out, they announced that it had memory available for future expansion, but AFAIK, nothing has been released.

 

[Biggles]

Just to add to Anotherscott’s comments.

The Kross real time controls are good, want a split, press the Combi and you have your original Program in the rh and Bass in lh. The main features though are you create the user Combi’s you want save them, and load them into the Favourites for quick seamless transition from one to another at the touch if a button.

Custom or user created samples load and play at the touch of a button when in the correct mode.

Alas Korg is indeed slow at releasing updates, I did have a complain to them a month ago and they said that the update should be before Summer, but I will believe that when it happens.

By comparison by other Korg has had 4 updates and many free expansion packs produced in the 18 months that I have had it.

 

[anotherscott]

Just to add to Anotherscott’s comments.

The Kross real time controls are good, want a split, press the Combi and you have your original Program in the rh and Bass in lh.

Okay, it's easy to create the split. But what if you then want to adjust the volume of just the RH sound, or change its octave? Or call up a different RH sound while playing that LH bass? That's the stuff that I think is simpler on the DS, and what I meant by "more real-time control for splits/layers."

The main features though are you create the user Combi’s you want save them, and load them into the Favourites for quick seamless transition from one to another at the touch if a button.

Really? When I tried it, there was no seamless transition between Kross combis... any tailing or held notes from the first combi would go silent as soon as you invoked the second one, unlike on the DS when changing Performances (where nothing goes silent, though you may hear a glitch or tonal change depending on the effects in use... something to watch for, but better than always having all the sound cut off).

Custom or user created samples load and play at the touch of a button when in the correct mode.

I was talking about having custom/user created samples playable as instruments across the keyboard, not single-triggering effects and such. The DS can take a sound and stretch it across the keyboard so you can play it, and even have the notes play different samples at different velocities. I don't think the Kross can do any of that...?

Not that everyone really needs to do the stuff I'm talking about, but if you do, Roland has those advantages.