Second keyboard...

[anotherscott]

First of all, the look of the Kross 2 88, the dark blue, the finish, the knobs, the pads... it just looks cool. And I want to touch it

Yes, visceral appeal matters!

I prefer the action of the Kross 2 over the FA

I don't care much for the FA08 action, it feels sluggish to me. Kross/Krome 88s are interesting... supposedly they're the same, but I played a Krome I thought was awful and a Kross that I thought was pretty good... I originally thought that maybe the Kross action was somehow inherently better, but I've since come to think that it could be more of a unit-to-unit variation rather than model-to-model.

Although the FA has a large colour display, the interface just isn't all that agreeable in use. It's a lot more detailed than the monochrome one in the Kross, but at the same time, there's too much going on. You can have a bunch of information on there, but the thing is, it gets too cramped too soon. I'd rather have basic but informative readings than too much with unnecessary bells and whistles.
Been looking at reviews of the Korg Havian 30 and Krome EX and those screens are about the same size but are used in a very different way, larger buttons, more basic but a lot more informative and usable. If you know what I mean...

I agree that, as the old saying goes, "size isn't everything, it's how you use it."

So, seeing that the MX61 put me off anything from Yamaha (rightfully so or not, you decide)

I would not dismiss the MODX7.

If you ask me, a Krome EX 73 might be a perfect companion for the Kross 2 88. It's got some killer sounds, semi-weighted keys and the dual arpeggiator really ticks a box.

Sure, could work for you. It is a different sound set from the Kross, yet still maintains a korgishness.

Other than Roland, Korg, and Yamaha, I think the only other moderately priced 7x semi-weighted would be Kurzweil Artis 7, if you want to check out a different action and sound set.

As for Kronos, its sounds and capabilities are outstanding, but even if you did have the budget, I have to say, to me, it doesn't "spark joy" to use. It just makes me feel too much like I'm operating a computer rather than playing an instrument. It's the cluttered screens, complicated navigation, vast array of undifferentiated/unlabeled controls... or to put some of that in terms of what you said above, for me, it doesn't have great visceral appeal, and the screen gets cramped too soon. Also there is no semi-weighted 7x key version, and you don't want 61, so that would limit you to the Kronos LS (88), which then costs you the aftertouch, which is a shame on such an upscale board.

 

[Kaneda]

The Kronos is way too expensive, that's going into Nord Stage 3 territory. And that Nord Stage 3... want to touch it, just like the Kross 2 88 But as I said, way too expensive...
No, I was already drawn to the Krome EX some time ago, so going to take a better look at that one, the 73, mind you, already have a weighted keyboard with the Kross 2 88.
As for the appartment, don't know. I won't spend that much time over there yet so better not try and set up a second 'studio' over there as well.
So, guess I will be looking at a weighted 88 key board, as I play piano style pieces more than anything else.
Korg Havian 30 looks nice, and I wouldn't need any speakers or accessories to go with it, comes with a sustain pedal and all. Just sit and play. It's an older board, discontinued but still available, and it has limited connectivity but it's not really a deal breaker. Same thing with the Casio Privia PX-560 but although it gets some good reviews and has triple sensor keys, I've also heard the keybed is kind of noisy...
Been looking at the Arturia Keylab 88 MKII, but that doesn't have any sounds of its own so would need my iPad/Macbook every time I want to play, plus I'd have to buy monitor speakers or a small amp, unless I want to play with headphones all the time.
Studiologic SL Studio 88 is an option, but again, need accessories again.
Korg D1, just to play some piano, but again, need speakers.
Etc.

Would like to keep it simple, really. And I'm not necessarily looking at something to integrate into my other two-tier setup later on, when I move for good. I'll worry about that in about a year from now...

 

[Biggles]

SL Studio is a hammer action board and behaves accordingly. It will feel more like the Kross 88 than like the Numa Compact 2X.

Scott

I got the chance today in yet a different Music Store in the nearly nearby seaside town of Morecambe to get hands on with and had a good look over a Numa Compact and it was mightily impressive, with it being very well made and with a very good key action.

I can now see why you frequently suggest it.

Bang for bucks it hits the sweet spot.

 

[Kaneda]

Well, returning the Roland's and going for the Krome EX 73 as a companion for the Kross 2 88. Paired with Logic on my iMac at home, I feel it's a pretty powerful combination.

As for the appartment, I will go the fanboy route. So sticking with Korg. Not going to buy just yet, but thinking about a Korg D1, with a Laney AH40 small amp (not going to bother with monitor speakers and stands etc - plus, I have a Laney AH150 at home and very happy with it). And something to go with it, because I know I'm going to miss having a two-tier setup, even if it's only for a year (I'll find some space for everything when I move, no worries ). So, I still might get that Kross 2 61 to go with the D1. The D1 has a great piano keybed but is a little low on sounds. That's where the Kross 2 61 comes in and I'll be using the D1 as a controller most of the time, in which case the synth action keybed of the K2 61 is not going to be that much of an issue. Not going to bother with a DAW in this case, will just keep it simple with just the two boards.

Anyway, for the time being, just going to order the Krome EX 73. The rest will follow in August.

 

[Kaneda]

On the first page of this thread, I mentioned something that I really wanted be able to play, Training Montage from the Rocky IV soundtrack.
Imagine my suprise when I heard this :

And why can't I edit my posts anymore ?

 

[Biggles]

Interesting that you link to a video about a Vox Continental which I did suggest back on 22nd June. They are awesome, yes I have played one and no I am not going to buy one, no room to put it.

Luke from Korg is one of the presenters in their monthly Webinars for their PA series,, the guy can play anything and is Korg UK’s keyboard product specialist.

I know you have discounted an Arranger but open your mind, the preset Styles are now very varied BUT you are not limited to them you can create your own, build each instrument including Bass, drums etc to create your own Style for a specific song.

Korg Kross 2 88 on lower tier, PA700 or 1000 on top tier, connect the Kross to the PA 700/1000 and use its inbuilt amp, a very neat setup and one that I have myself, best of all worlds.

Want to create your own MIDI, no problem do it in the PA700/1000 and play it back from there, or create backing track file and play it and jam along. Far more versatile than two very similar keyboards like the Kross and Krome.

BTW
Editing a post is a time limited setting, you are locked out of editing when the time expires.

 

[Kaneda]

@Biggles
Thanks but not going to buy an arranger. I've even had a look at a Korg PA4x 76 and the Yamaha Genos, and although very impressive (and most of all, unaffordable), that type of keyboard is really not for me. But I appreciate your efforts
Oh, and didn't know about the time limited editing, haven't encountered this before on any forum I'm on...

But...
I have (finally) made up my mind...
Just have the Korg Kross 2 88 for the moment, which I will move to the appartement, and get a small amp for. Have a double X-stand for it, so all good on that front.
As for my empty two-tier stand at home, I will be filling that with a Korg Grandstage 88 and a Korg Vox Continental 73. Seems a bit akin to the Roland FA-08/VR-730 setup I had before, but this time, there won’t be any chance of me getting frustrated with unusable user interfaces. Allow me to explain...

Went to a store during my lunch break (different one than before) and they seemed to have an incredible stock of keyboards (different country, I live in Belgium, but work in France, near a large city, so obviously the store I went to was a lot bigger as the one closer to home).
Anyway, they seemed to stock keyboards I hadn’t noticed in the other store. Was there for about an hour (2-hour lunch breaks in France ) and walked around, tried out several keyboards. Still feel the same about the FA08 and the VR730 I sent back, though. So no regrets.
Went over to Yamaha, MODX is nice, good keybed, but again, to much stuff on that display. Between the information and the DAW on the computer, I feel my head is likely to explode...
Avoided Nord, to dear for my wallet (Stage 3, Piano 4 and Electro 6, very nice but dearer still than both Korg's), Kurzweil didn't do anything for me. Casio, well, I don't know. They're not bad, I guess, but very much not my thing (don't agree with the raving reviews of the Privia PX-560, for example). They didn't have Studiologic, not that I could see, in any case, didn't ask, either. Didn't spend too much time there, because I wanted to go to the...

Korg corner : Korg Krome EX 73, the one I was eyeing, nice, good feel to the keys, sounds are yummy but that display… It’s better and more usable than the one in the FA08, but it still isn’t what it should be, imho : simple and usable, like the one in my Kross 2 88. Kross 2 61, well, that keybed, on second thought, nope... Kronos, nice, expensive. Big display... Dunno...
Then, I noticed the D1. Tried it out, and liked the keybed a lot. Very, very simple to use, no display at all, except for the small LED. And then I moved over to the one next to it, the Grandstage 88. Good grief, now this is what I’m talking about ! None of that computerized mumbo jumbo that takes your focus off you playing music ; nope, this was just heaven, controls in the right place, everything just felt perfect. Of course, it costs three times as much as the D1, but what the hell. And yes, it spoke to me…
And then, I spotted the Vox Continental. It certainly looks out of the ordinary, to put it mildly, so had a go at it. And again, same feeling as with the Grandstage. To be honest, playing both instruments gave me goosebumps and put a smile on my face, and that’s how it’s supposed to be, wouldn't you agree ? I mean, I'm not a gigging artist, which these boards are made for, but why should I let that bother me ?

I love to play Elton John, and am a fan of the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, The Doors, Queen, Rolling Stones, etc. I also love The Blues Brothers and that movie soundtrack is one of my all time favourites. My favourite music is from the 40’s right up until the 80’s. And these instruments, I feel, are right up my alley.
And for all the computer mumbo-jumbo, I can still connect them to my DAW, no problem and engage in some more contemporary sounding music. And maybe that’s what I prefer : have all the information I need on a big computer screen, rather than having to try and cramp a large number information on a display not bigger than a smartphone (that’s why I don’t do online banking, shopping or web browsing on my phone, so counter-intuitive to do that on a small display like that).

I admit, when I decided to get back into music, I went in head first, way too fast, not really knowing what was out there, and I have made some bad choices in the process. The only survivor being the Korg Kross 2 88, which I’ll never part with, because in my opinion, they put a lot of thought into the development of that one, and it shows. Same for the Grandstage and the Vox. With these 2 new ones, I will finally be able to do ‘my thing’, I feel. Or rather, I’m very, very sure of it !

In any case, thanks for listening to and for giving feedback on ‘my adventures’ so far. In other words, thanks for having me . I’ll let you know how things go.
In all honesty, going to sit out the weekend. Going to do some more research tomorrow and the day after and then bite the bullet on Monday. But it's already a done deal as far as I'm concerned...

 

[anotherscott]

On the first page of this thread, I mentioned something that I really wanted be able to play, Training Montage from the Rocky IV soundtrack.
Imagine my suprise when I heard this

It's a layered FM-style (DX7) EP sound with acoustic piano sound... so the good news is that you should be able to approximate that with lots of boards.

(don't agree with the raving reviews of the Privia PX-560, for example).

PX560's strengths are that it is light and small for an 88 (important for people who travel/gig with it or who have limited space), has a pretty simple touchscreen interface, and has one of the better feeling piano actions (some say best) in a low-cost or lightweight board. If those aren't your priorities, Korg/Roland/Yamaha all offer boards that are preferable in other ways. (ETA: Also, the Casio has built-in speakers.)

then I moved over to the one next to it, the Grandstage 88. Good grief, now this is what I’m talking about ! None of that computerized mumbo jumbo that takes your focus off you playing music ; nope, this was just heaven, controls in the right place, everything just felt perfect. Of course, it costs three times as much as the D1, but what the hell. And yes, it spoke to me…
And then, I spotted the Vox Continental. It certainly looks out of the ordinary, to put it mildly, so had a go at it. And again, same feeling as with the Grandstage.

Grandstage and Vox Continental have a lot of similarities, and both derive their sounds primarily from the Kronos... which is not true of the Kross (or Krome) so they will give you different sounds from what you have... though you may find there is a good deal of sonic duplication between the Grandstage and Vox themselves. The Grandstage has a bigger sound set (500 sounds vs. 150, from about 32 GB wave data vs. 10.5), more savable user locations (64 vs. 16), the ability to split sounds. Vox has drawbar organ controls and the tube. Obviously the actions and available real-time control setup are different.

You might want to look at the Korg SV1 instead of the Grandstage. Same kind of action as the Grandstage and D1, but different sound base (also different from either Kross or Krome), and it will save you some money, too. If you run a MIDI cable from the SV1 MIDI OUT to the Vox MIDI IN, you will still have many of the Grandstage sounds playable from a Grandstage-type keyboard without having as much expense as the Grandstage and with the addition of some Korg sounds of another character than are not found in any of your other boards, particularly if you're a fan of electric piano sounds, where the SV1 is especially strong. The Grandstage has the same EP engine as the Vox, though the Vox should sound better because of the tube. The SV1 has its own EP sounds, and also has a tube. The SV1 also has the most real-time control over effects. There are still things the Grandstage can do (in sounds and functions) that neither the SV1 nor Vox can do, so it's not a no-brainer, but I think it's worth consideration. Try to get your hands on one if you can, if you haven't already, maybe it will speak to you as well.

 

[Kaneda]

You might want to look at the Korg SV1 instead of the Grandstage.

I have looked at it online, but unfortunately, didn't have the chance to try it out for myself, it was one of the few boards they didn't have in stock at the store I went to today. They do sell it, it was just out of stock.
I'll see if I've got time over the weekend and hopefully I can try one out. It's got the same keybed as the Grandstage, you say ?

 

[anotherscott]

Yes... D1, SV1, and Grandstage all use their RH3 action. So they will at least all be similar, though some people may feel they don't feel identical. Kronos uses RH3 and feels different from the SV1 to me, though maybe that's related to the fact that it has aftertouch, I don't know. I haven't played a D1 or Grandstage personally, but I like the feel of the SV1.

 

[Kaneda]

Visually, I think it's a bit 'too' retro for my taste. And it's been out since 2009... which worries me because I've got the feeling there might be some kind of update of successor in the works...
But I'm not ordering before Monday, so I'll see if I can get hold of one over the weekend. Keeping an open mind...

 

[anotherscott]

I think the Grandstage was essentially the SV1 successor, but they've kept the SV1 around due to its lower price point and the fact that it was still popular.

 

[Kaneda]

I can understand it has a certain appeal, but I feel it offers a lot less for only 500 euros less than the Grandstage...
Still, will try and find one over the weekend.

I any case, one year from now, I'll be able to use all three keyboards, connect everything together (all I'll need to buy, will be a small mixer), since I will have enough room to put them. The Vox and the Grandstage (or the SV1, who knows) on my spider pro, and the Kross 2 88 on the double X-stand, in a L-shaped setup, or rather U-shaped : imagine the Vox and Grandstage in front of me, the Kross 2 to the left and my desk with the iMac and DAW on the right, or any variation, will see what works best. I know both the Vox and the Grandstage come with their own stand, but that would mean putting them next to eachother since they're both one-tier stands, I believe. Will keep them in storage, maybe they'll come in handy one day

 

[Biggles]

By the time you get fully setup the only things you will need is long blond hair and a cape.

 

[anotherscott]

I can understand it has a certain appeal, but I feel it offers a lot less for only 500 euros less than the Grandstage...
Still, will try and find one over the weekend.

It's really about the EPs, the effects controls, the overall operational vibe. It's not a very versatile board, it just does a handful of things really well. Either it will click for you, or it won't. If it doesn't put that smile on your face, then absolutely, stick with the GS!

 

[Kaneda]

By the time you get fully setup the only things you will need is long blond hair and a cape.

Well, I’ll only have one keyboard more than you

 

[Kaneda]

Right, payed a visit to a store and was able to try the SV-1... It's got something special, I'll give you that, and the way the control panel more or less 'looks' at you, is neat. But it doesn't 'speak' to me as the Grandstage does...
I was briefly tempted by the Roland RD-2000, it's about the same price as the Korg Grandstage, has a lot more sounds and features. For a moment, I thought that maybe I could just keep the VR730 (seeing I have it already and I don't actually hate it) and just send the FA08 back (can't return them before Monday).
But in the end, I still prefer the Korg : like the Vox, it's simple and just a joy to play...
So, will be ordering the Grandstage 88 and Vox Continental in the coming weeks. Can't wait. Will be connecting those to my Laney AH150 at home.

Still have to work 3 weeks before I take a 3-week break. Then I'll finally have time to put things in order in the appartment and move over some stuff, not in the least my Kross 2 88.
Speaking of which : I'll need an amp, or studio speaker system. And I know I'll want a little companion (I always do things in two's, got twins as well, so who am I to argue ).
So I got thinking (uh oh...) : ideally, a smaller keyboard than the Kross 2 88, so 73/76 or at least 61. And maybe some built-in speakers wouldn't go amiss. And I remembered Biggles talking so positively about his Korg PA700.
Didn't try it out at the store, didn't have time and besides, was too immersed in admiring the Grandstage and Vox .
I'm home now, been reading reviews and watching youtube on the PA700 and frankly, I must admit it has some great sounds and the styles don't seem so 'old skool' after all. I hadn't considered it at all up until now, and I must say that I'm pleasantly surprised. And I could run my Kross 2 88 through its speakers (Biggles told me, I know). And the price is right, seems very fair for what you're getting.

Only thing I need to know, is about the keybed. It's supposed to be semi-weighted. Some sites say that it is, others just state it has velocity sensitive keys. So...
@Biggles Can you confirm the PA700 has semi-weighted keys ? In fact, seeing that you also have a Kross 2 61, which has synth action keys, the keybed on the PA700 should be very different... If not, that's definitely going to be a deal-breaker for me...
Also, how are the built-in speakers ? I suppose more than enough for home use ?

 

[CowboyNQ]

Right, payed a visit to a store and was able to try the SV-1...

I have to admit I thought of you and this thread tonight when I was gigging with my own SV-1. I have a serious love affair with this keyboard.

It’s not the most versatile thing going around and it weighs a ton, but gee it makes me happy when I use it! I’m an unabashed fan of the RH-3 action and I love how it sounds. Particularly the Wurlitzer and Rhodes.

 

[Kaneda]

I have to admit I thought of you and this thread tonight when I was gigging with my own SV-1. I have a serious love affair with this keyboard.

It’s not the most versatile thing going around and it weighs a ton, but gee it makes me happy when I use it! I’m an unabashed fan of the RH-3 action and I love how it sounds. Particularly the Wurlitzer and Rhodes.

Like I said, it's a very cool board and I can't fault it, really. But I still prefer the Grandstage 88

 

[CowboyNQ]

That looks a very nice stage piano too, not that I’ve had the opportunity to try one.